# Why so much speculation regarding Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056 "2011-02-03T19:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/21 "2011-02-04T03:08:52Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > How the fuck can you have a cite for _expecting_ something to happen? > > You are totally misapplying the concept of asking for a cite. :rolleyes: I had a hunch the OP was witch hunting. I’m glad you find my provocative post worthy of commenting. Which leaves me to conclude you find OP reasonable. Ah, well… ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/22 "2011-02-04T03:10:09Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Thanks…Jews have been blamed for the holocaust; nothing would surprise me when it comes to blaming Jews for this, that and the other thing. Another one… Cite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/23 "2011-02-04T05:05:14Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Cite? Sure. [Here](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4023319,00.html) > [@](#): > > A young Egyptian woman claims that the Mossad trained her to assist in bringing down Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak’s regime. In an interview with Egypt’s Al Mehwar network the woman, who noted that her facebook page was extremely popular, said that she was sent by an American organization to be specially trained “by Israelis and Jews” in Qatar. … And in the typical fashion, also those wily Jews doing the exact opposite at the same time - [here.](http://bigthink.com/ideas/26783) > [@](#): > > … plain clothes Israeli agents are helping to orchestrate the pro Mubarak mob As to the op - I’ve also read fairly little about the effect on Israel, but sure it matters to everyone. An unstable unpredictable Egypt is another wild card which effects Gaza, arming of Hamas, possible direct conflicts between Israel and Egypt and from there an even wider conflagration. Thing is that most everyone wants a stable and predictable Egypt, apparently even the MB, but most importantly the military and most of the protestors. The protestors just want that stability without Mubarak and with free elections and a few jobs wouldn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/24 "2011-02-04T09:58:29Z")
I would say in UK medias that there is only tangential mention of Israel - and at an expected level. They are neighbours… The OP rather feels like a preemptive Monty Python kind of moment. Most discussion seems to be on wider meaning for Arab world. In short, an appropriate level of discussion and if any blame is being mentioned it is more on the head of the US. Although re Dseid, at least the pro Mubarek accusation makes some vague sense (not that one gives credence to it) ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/25 "2011-02-04T17:07:16Z")
> **[Israel's Never Looked So Good](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israels-never-looked-so-g_b_816661?ref=fb&src=sp)** > > Israel's Never Looked So Good > [@](#): > > Israel’s Never Looked So Good > by David Suissa > > They warned us. The geniuses at Peace Now warned us. The brilliant diplomats warned us. The think tanks warned us. Even the Arab dictators warned us. For decades now, they have been warning us that if you want “peace in the Middle East,” just fix the Palestinian problem. A recent variation on this theme has been: Just get the Jews to stop building apartments in East Jerusalem and Efrat. Yes, if all those Jews in the West Bank and East Jerusalem would only “freeze” their construction, then, finally, Palestinian leaders might come to the table and peace might break out. > > And what would happen if peace would break out between Jews and Palestinians? Would all those furious Arabs now demonstrating on streets across the Middle East feel any better? > > What bloody nonsense. > > Has there ever been a greater abuse of the English language in international diplomacy than calling the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the “Middle East peace process?” As if there were only two countries in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/26 "2011-02-04T17:21:40Z")
uhhhh… okay. So you want to make this about Israel. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/27 "2011-02-04T17:28:58Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Another one… > > Cite? 😃 > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CEsQFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jewishfamilyservice.net%2Fjewish%2Fhow-were-jewish-people-blamed-during-the-holocaust&ei=8jZMTeK_LMOclgfYjY08&usg=AFQjCNHC3x4rR7MaWxKD4IEZmLJgtvfYQw&sig2=w446CkvFXPX1WBJmNU5JLA)** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/28 "2011-02-04T17:31:51Z")
**AshenLady** , please don’t repost entire articles, especially without clear attribution. In the future please use a short quote (a few paragraphs at most), making clear it’s a quote, and link to the rest. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/29 "2011-02-04T17:40:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **AshenLady** , please don’t repost entire articles, especially without clear attribution. In the future please use a short quote (a few paragraphs at most), making clear it’s a quote, and link to the rest. Okay ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/30 "2011-02-04T19:47:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > How the fuck can you have a cite for _expecting_ something to happen? The future’s uncertain, and the end is always near. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/31 "2011-02-04T23:59:32Z")
What if rebellion spreads to Syria? The Syrian people might find out that having a dictatorship for 50+ years hasn’t done much for their standard of living. Getting rid of a crook like Assad is a pretty good thing. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/32 "2011-02-05T00:13:23Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What if rebellion spreads to Syria? The Syrian people might find out that having a dictatorship for 50+ years hasn’t done much for their standard of living. > Getting rid of a crook like Assad is a pretty good thing. I thought that Syria would be amongst the first to toss Assad out, along with all of his family, also. Syria is a horrible place, with a horrible standard of living. I hope they get the moxie to toss him out! ---
**Author:** ![showtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@showtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/showtime)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/33 "2011-02-05T01:19:12Z")
The people of Egypt have always despised the peace with Israel. It was never some popular sentiment that was expressed by the people which then led to former Egyptian leader Sadat to sign the peace treaty. Sadat had determined that war was costing Egypt too much in blood and money and decided as the head of state to sign it. So the notion of a new regime chosen by a majority of the people begs the question of ‘what will happen now?’ Egypt led the fervor against Israel from 1948 to 1979, indeed there has never been a major war involving Israel against a nation with a standing army where Egypt wasn’t involved. We almost went to WWIII in October of 1973 when the entire Egyptian Third Army had been cut off in the Sinai and Ariel Sharon had crossed the Suez into Egypt proper. The USSR was so worried about Egypt being overran by Israel that they threatened to physically intervene in the conflict unless it stopped. I think there may be even a sort of nostalgia among the media to return to those horrible wars’ of '48,'56,'67,'73. Conventional wars are much easier to report then suicide bombings and scaled back incursions, etc. As Bill Maher aptly refers to this type of coverage “Disaster Porn”, 24 hour coverage of a news event until it wears out. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/34 "2011-02-05T01:33:30Z")
The military does not want a war with Israel and is unlikely to allow any government that would cause one to have power, democratically elected or not. They seem to have veto power. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/35 "2011-02-05T02:58:01Z")
> [@showtime](#): > > The people of Egypt have always despised the peace with Israel. Most of the people of Egypt have never known anything _but_ peace with Israel, having been born after it was established. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/36 "2011-02-05T02:59:50Z")
Familiarity does not prevent contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/37 "2011-02-05T03:06:40Z")
Well, is there some reason to think the new generation of Egyptians _would_ want to tangle with Israel again? Have any of them said so? What would they gain by it? I know there are Israelis and Americans _speculating_ about what the Egyptians think; is there anything solid to hang that on? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/38 "2011-02-05T03:18:54Z")
Anti-Semitism is rampant in Egyptian media and anti-Israel sentiment is not uncommon. We did have a poster ( **Vegamite Lover** or something of the sort), who claimed to be working in Egypt and that support for a new war with Israel was popular, IIRC. I’m not sure how accurate the polls or popular culture is in Egypt, but I don’t think that it’s impossible that Egyptian society can undergo a sea change, and even more moderate elements like Elbardei oppose blockading Hamas. Hopefully Egypt can achieve freedom and stability without sparking a new Hamas-Israel war or igniting a pan middle east war. But as of yet, the dice have been cast but not stopped spinning. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/39 "2011-02-05T14:54:25Z")
What I find surprising is this sudden thirst for democracy amongst the Egyptians when they haven’t shown much interest in the idea for virtually all of their history. Do they truly want genuine democracy ? Or do they just want a regime change so that they can get their chance to put their snouts in the trough ? I don’t believe in corruption unless its me being corrupted ? With the exception of Israel there has never been any real desire for Western style democracy in the M.E. If Muburak goes then the Egyptians might all too soon find out what it is like to live under a REAL tyranny. We saw the same idiocy, especially amongst Western liberals, when the Iranians started demonstrating against the Shah. The Oxford Union (of students)I believe, voted Ayatollah Khomeni “Man of the Year” . Ask the Iranians how happy they are under their present, seemingly unoustable regime. The Egyptians are looking for a fairy tale ending , lets hope that they get it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056/40 "2011-02-05T21:17:01Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Well, is there some reason to think the new generation of Egyptians _would_ want to tangle with Israel again? Have any of them said so? What would they gain by it? > > I know there are Israelis and Americans _speculating_ about what the Egyptians think; is there anything solid to hang that on? Yes. As referenced in another thread, [this Pew poll](http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/). Overall as many have unfavorable as favorable views of Hamas. 46% feel that suicide bombing in never justified and another 34% say “rarely”. [Polls show](http://justjournalism.com/media-analysis/egyptian-attitudes-to-israel/) a solid plurality think that Israel is an enemy and not a friend of Egypt and that the needs of the Palestinians require Israel being gone. > [@](#): > > … in 2006 the Israeli Ynet reported that a survey by an Egyptian state institute ‘showed that 92 percent of respondents see Israel as an enemy’, while only 2 percent saw it as a ‘friend to Egypt’. > > Ronald Brownstein, writing in the National Journal yesterday on the outlook of a post-Mubarak government, cites a 2007 Pew poll on attitudes towards the two-state solution: > > ‘In a 2007 Pew survey, a stunning 80 percent of Egyptians said that the needs of the Palestinian people could never be met as long as Israel exists; just 18 percent said that the two societies could coexist fairly.’ > > Most recently, the Jerusalem Post reported in 2010 that a Pew Poll found that 95% of Egypt held an ‘unfavourable view’ of Jews. By way of contrast, ‘only 35% of Israeli Arabs expressed a negative opinion of Jews, while 56% voiced a favorable opinion.’ FWIW. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-much-speculation-regarding-israel/570056.md?page=3)