# Why so serious? \[Is poster depicting Obama as the Joker from Batman racist?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714 "2009-08-08T02:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/41 "2009-08-08T16:40:02Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > Educate me then. In what way is my paraphrase of the original sentence, “The Obama/Joker image just doesn’t work as satire, humor or anything else.” as “Making Obama the Joker just isn’t [satire],” taking note that your specific objection is my using the word “just.” What meaning did I not convey? [Ahem.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context) You claimed to be paraphrasing his explanation why what he did was different, _but you left out the actual explanation why what he did was different_. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/42 "2009-08-08T17:22:35Z")
Mean-spirited? Yes. Racist? No. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/43 "2009-08-08T23:46:38Z")
Another vote for seriosuly lame, but not racist. \* “There is such a fine line, between stupid and clever…”\* > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sure there is. I, a black man who campaigned for him, am happy to criticize him for pandering to the homophobic elements of our mutual community. > > Not racist at all. Right. Now, I recognize that someone may now ask us to imagine how that exact critique would be received coming from a _white_ gay man – but even then he’d still retain the moral high ground over the twit who cries racism. But what we’re dealing with here is not really “critique”. Instead we have an example in which the question becomes if _“there is no way to **ridicule or disparage** Obama without some twit calling it racist”_? We may have to concede on that one, with the caveat that in some cases it may indeed be merely the reaction of “some twit”… and in other cases there will be people really offended. The debate would be over (a) to what extent leaders are fair game for ridicule and disparagement(\*), and (b) whether you can really be “colorblind” with an insult(\*\*). (\*And I don’t think I’ve ever lived through an age when there was not at least a considerable minority who thought the President at the time was an incompetent fool at best and an outright criminal at worst…) (\*\* Of course, with the Joker illustration you also have the visual element of the clown whiteface, “Glasgow smile” and sunken eyes, which may push some people’s buttons in a way that, say, a Riddler question-mark suit wouldn’t… (that one would be for the Birthers;) ) ) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/44 "2009-08-09T01:34:52Z")
Aha! I just realized who the picture reminded me of. Baron Samedi in “Live and Let Die.” ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/45 "2009-08-09T10:22:48Z")
Ok then. So far we have: - “Joe six pack” - "hockey moms” ([“Joe six pack” and “hockey moms”](http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/black-congressmen-declare-racism-palin-s-rhetoric?page=0%2C1)) - “that one” ([Nets Condemn McCain Calling Obama ‘That One’; CNN: Palin Racist](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2008/10/08/networks-condemn-mccain-calling-obama-one)) - Socialist ([Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black](http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2493)) - “handsome, young and suntanned” ([Silvio Berlusconi in racism row over ‘suntanned’ Barack Obama aside](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5100973.ece)) - The joker. - and etc. English is a difficult language. So many words for racist. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/46 "2009-08-09T13:31:24Z")
There was a time when white actors played black people wearing black grease paint, think Al Jolson. Then the characterture of blacks with big grins was a common insult. All the picture lacked was a watermelon. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/47 "2009-08-09T13:33:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There was a time when white actors played black people wearing black grease paint, think Al Jolson. Then the characterture of blacks with big grins was a common insult. All the picture lacked was a watermelon. Well, that and any connection at all to a white man in blackface. Oh, and the fact that it was an obvious reference to an exceptionally famous character in a recently poular movie that had nothing to do with racism. In other words, it was a hell of a lot further from racism than one watermelon. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/48 "2009-08-09T13:50:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sure there is. I, a black man who campaigned for him, am happy to criticize him for pandering to the homophobic elements of our mutual community. Then one could just call you an Uncle Tom or self-hating Negro. Although you are correct that belonging to one of the officially designated protected groups and announcing that you generally support Obama shields you from much of the auto-criticism. A black Republican, on the other hand, could probably expect that kind of response as a matter of course. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/49 "2009-08-09T17:06:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, that and any connection at all to a white man in blackface. Oh, and the fact that it was an obvious reference to an exceptionally famous character in a recently poular movie that had nothing to do with racism. > > In other words, it was a hell of a lot further from racism than one watermelon. it might be a generational difference. But i immediately found it offense. But you don’t share My time. My internal references include blacks being portrayed with big wide grins. They were actually shown in the dark as just a grin with eyes. The fact that the joker was a recent movie character is irrelevant in that context. Don’t presume to speak for a time you do not share. I recognized when i saw it that my reaction would likely not be shared with younger people. But do not dismiss it as untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/50 "2009-08-09T17:21:12Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > it might be a generational difference. But i immediately found it offense. But you don’t share My time. My internal references include blacks being portrayed with big wide grins. They were actually shown in the dark as just a grin with eyes. The fact that the joker was a recent movie character is irrelevant in that context. Don’t presume to speak for a time you do not share. I recognized when i saw it that my reaction would likely not be shared with younger people. But do not dismiss it as untrue. This is _really_ stretching it. The picture is not racist. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/51 "2009-08-09T17:46:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But what we’re dealing with here is not really “critique”. Instead we have an example in which the question becomes if _“there is no way to **ridicule or disparage** Obama without some twit calling it racist”_? We may have to concede on that one, with the caveat that in some cases it may indeed be merely the reaction of “some twit”… and in other cases there will be people really offended. The debate would be over (a) to what extent leaders are fair game for ridicule and disparagement(\*), and (b) whether you can really be “colorblind” with an insult(\*\*). There’s another issue here, in my mind. And that is that manipulation of IMAGES of Obama may be more vulnerable to cries of “racism” than images of a white President would be. I recall a stink over Time magazine using a manipulated image of OJ Simpson which made him look much darker and than the unaltered image on the cover of Newsweek. I’m not disagreeing with your general point, just elaborating on one bit of it–which is that graphical presentations of Obama are likely to be scrutinized in ways that words critiquing his policies may not be. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/52 "2009-08-09T18:49:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > My internal references include blacks being portrayed with big wide grins. They were actually shown in the dark as just a grin with eyes. The fact that the joker was a recent movie character is irrelevant in that context. I had no idea. Dammit, now I’m going to have to petition the library to remove **Alice in Wonderland** from the shelves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/53 "2009-08-09T21:08:32Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > This is _really_ stretching it. The picture is not racist. Can you say " in my opinion". Then I will discuss. To axiomatically declare it free of racism is BS. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/54 "2009-08-09T21:22:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then one could just call you an Uncle Tom or self-hating Negro. > > Although you are correct that belonging to one of the officially designated protected groups and announcing that you generally support Obama shields you from much of the auto-criticism. A black Republican, on the other hand, could probably expect that kind of response as a matter of course. If the Republican Party stopped being racist, nobody would say anything about black Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/55 "2009-08-09T21:23:46Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Can you say " in my opinion". Then I will discuss. To axiomatically declare it free of racism is BS. It’s not racist buddy. It’s just stupid. It’s just really stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/56 "2009-08-10T12:10:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > If the Republican Party stopped being racist, nobody would say anything about black Republicans. No, probably not. All too often, “racist” is just a code word for “Republican who is winning an argument”. The OP is an example of how the discourse runs for some people. Even on a board as extreme as the SDMB, it seems to be consensus that the ad is not racist. Yet there are twits who say it is. Same for Republicans. They are always going to be accused of racism, not matter what. Unfortunately or otherwise, the word “racist” just doesn’t carry the same impact it once did. Too many twits applying it to everything and anything they don’t like. After a certain point, the recipient just shrugs and moves on. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/57 "2009-08-10T12:15:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, probably not. > > All too often, “racist” is just a code word for “Republican who is winning an argument”. Cite an example where a Republican wins an argument? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/58 "2009-08-12T18:07:18Z")
In the comedy there is a pecking order… Remember the Jerry Seinfeld show where Jerry’s friend converted to Judaism and Jerry claims the only reasn he converted was so he could tell jokes about Jews. That is how it works. If you’re white, and make fun of Mr Obama you’re a racist, if you’re black and make fun of Mr Obama the same joke is funny. It’s not only unique to African Americans. Jews, women, and such are off limits. If you’re handicapped you can freely make fun of handicapped people. It’s the old, “I can insult my mother but you can’t” syndrome This is why _the Simpsons_ does so many Irish jokes. It’s about the only nationality left you can get away with. Fat people and to a lesser extent gays are still open season. I think it’s really funny that for years black people decried the representation of _Amos ‘n’ Andy_, while show written today about black people are virtually the same. What’s the difference? African Americans claim that _Amos ‘n’ Andy_ was how WHITE people thought African Americans are. Now we have black people writing the identical jokes on show like _Malcom & Eddie_ and such, talking with ghetto dialect. The same thing that drove _Amos ‘n’ Andy_ off the air. So you have to realize, yes it’s a double standard. That’s just how it is. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/59 "2009-08-12T18:23:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Can you say " in my opinion". Then I will discuss. To axiomatically declare it free of racism is BS. You seem amazingly desperate to cling on to some notion that the poster MAY be racist. As **Shodan** ponited out, there seems to ba a consensus even on the SDMB that it is not. I suggest that that should give you pause to reevaluate what you consider racist. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714/60 "2009-08-12T18:42:15Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > This is _really_ stretching it. The picture is not racist. Not a bit. The picture is racist. Thanks for your thoughtful rebut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-so-serious-is-poster-depicting-obama-as-the-joker-from-batman-racist/505714.md?page=4)