# Why soy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369 "2004-04-05T15:20:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elethiomel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Elethiomel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elethiomel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/1 "2004-04-05T15:20:05Z")
Soy is apparently very healthy. That’s all I can get from my web searches on it, anyway. Healthy is well and good, but is there another reason why it’s getting used in so many food products with artificial taste? Is it especially cheap, or does it grow on relatively barren ground? Other reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/2 "2004-04-05T15:36:12Z")
According to [this page](http://www.soyfoods.com/manufacture/BakeFunc.html) (from a soy bean manufacture) it does all sorts of neat stuff cheaply. > [@](#): > > Soy flour and grits help promote moisture retention, improve crust color, extend shelf life and, when used in most blends, can help lower production costs. They are commonly used in doughnuts and other deep-fried products to reduce fat penetration. They are also used in formulations of low-cholesterol baked items, for example, to reduce egg usage in cakes. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/3 "2004-04-05T17:09:19Z")
Well, there’s the fact that the plant makes its own fertilizer. Soya’s lumpy roots actually “make their own” nitrogen, in a way I don’t pretend to understand. ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/4 "2004-04-05T17:13:52Z")
Peas and beans have bacteria living in the root nodules that ‘fix’ nitrogen from the air, producing nitrates the plant can absorb. Infertile soil is pretty often just low in nitrates, even though the other substances plants need might be adequate . ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/5 "2004-04-05T17:23:29Z")
What you are referring to is that soy is a “nitrogen fixer”, like other legumes: > **[How Nitrogen-Fixing Plants Aid in Fertilization](https://www.thespruce.com/nitrogen-fixing-plants-2131092)** > > Learn about what nitrogen-fixing plants are and what they do, plus get examples of different types. Bacteria that live in the roots “fix” atmospheric nitrogen in the soil. That’s one of the attractions - it can serve the same purpose in crop rotation as, say, planting a field in clover for a while, while still being a valuable crop. Basically, it has a good yield, is easy to grow, tolerant of a wide variety of conditions, and useful for a wide variety of purposes. That said, tofu tastes like eating a sofa cushion. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/6 "2004-04-05T17:26:04Z")
Soy is flexible: it can be formed into a variety of shapes and it’s nuetral taste allows it to be flavored failry easily. As a bonus, it packs a heap of protein into a low cal package. Somewhere around 10grams of protein for every 90cals. That is an excellent ratio. It also has antioxidents. It grows in a variety of soils, is pretty rugged and economical to grow. Whether as a burger or a drink, soy can be used and flavored to do the job. It’s abundant and has a great balance of cals/protein/anitoxidents. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/7 "2004-04-05T17:33:56Z")
I love adding soy sauce to many of my dishes. I think it is used as a flavor enhancer similar to MSG but without the bad rep MSG got lately (unfairly IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/8 "2004-04-05T20:21:15Z")
> [@Elethiomel](#): > > Soy is apparently very healthy. Actually, it’s not. Or potentially not. Although there is naturally some debate among experts, there are studies linking soy with brain abnormalities, cancer and thyroid disease, among other things. > [@](#): > > [http://www.nexusmagazine.com/soydangers.html](http://www.nexusmagazine.com/soydangers.html) > > DISSENSION IN THE RANKS > > Organisers of the Third International Soy Symposium would be hard-pressed to call the conference an unqualified success. On the second day of the symposium, the London-based Food Commission and the Weston A. Price Foundation of Washington, DC, held a joint press conference, in the same hotel as the symposium, to present concerns about soy infant formula. Industry representatives sat stony-faced through the recitation of potential dangers and a plea from concerned scientists and parents to pull soy-based infant formula from the market. Under pressure from the Jameses, the New Zealand Government had issued a health warning about soy infant formula in 1998; it was time for the American government to do the same. > > On the last day of the symposium, presentations on new findings related to toxicity sent a well-oxygenated chill through the giddy helium hype. Dr Lon White reported on a study of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii, that showed a significant statistical relationship between two or more servings of tofu a week and “accelerated brain aging”. Those participants who consumed tofu in mid-life had lower cognitive function in late life and a greater incidence of Alzheimer’s disease and dementia. “What’s more,” said Dr White, “those who ate a lot of tofu, by the time they were 75 or 80 looked five years older”. White and his colleagues blamed the negative effects on isoflavones - a finding that supports an earlier study in which postmenopausal women with higher levels of circulating oestrogen experienced greater cognitive decline. > > Scientists Daniel Sheehan and Daniel Doerge, from the National Center for Toxicological Research, ruined PTI’s day by presenting findings from rat feeding studies, indicating that genistein in soy foods causes irreversible damage to enzymes that synthesise thyroid hormones. “The association between soybean consumption and goiter in animals and humans has a long history,” wrote Dr Doerge. “Current evidence for the beneficial effects of soy requires a full understanding of potential adverse effects as well.” Although I’ve found references to that symposium and the mentioned studies elsewhere online, I’m not familiar with any of the sources (eg, who is [this guy](http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm) and is he a respected physician or a quack, promoting an agenda?). They do list an impressive list of references for their article, however. But from what is at least a familiar/known source, there is also this: > [@](#): > > [http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020\_000609\_soy\_feature.html](http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000609_soy_feature.html) > > June 9 — From tofu and tacos to burgers and baby formula, soy products have swept the nation as a healthy source of high protein, with a reputation for being all natural and all good. > > But a 20/20 investigation has found that amid all of this praise, some scientists are now challenging this popular wisdom, and suggesting there may be a downside to this “miracle food.” > > “The safety issues are largely unanswered,” says Daniel Doerge, a research scientist for the Food and Drug Administration and an expert on soy. > > New studies have raised questions over whether the natural ingredients in soy might increase the risk of breast cancer in some women, affect brain function in men and lead to hidden developmental abnormalities in infants. > > \ > > [Dr. Claude Hughes, director of the Women’s Health Center at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles] has also raised potentially more serious questions about soy and breast cancer. In some cases, soy is thought to protect against breast cancer. But some studies now indicate, for other women, the chemicals found in soy may enhance a widely found kind of estrogen-feeding breast cancer. > > “It can speed up divisions of those cells that are already cancer cells that depend on estrogen for their growth,” Hughes tells 20/20. > > \ > > While the scientific research on soy is still emerging and is often contradictory, there are now some serious questions being raised about this miracle food, and some of its staunchest defenders acknowledge that these questions need to be answered. Anyway, I would not take for granted that “Soy is apparently very healthy.” Especially if you have any [symptoms associated with hypothyroidism](http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/hypochecklist.htm), I would consume soy products with caution. And to answer your question as to “why soy,” just follow the money… > [@](#): > > All soybean producers pay a mandatory assessment of one-half to one per cent of the net market price of soybeans. The total - something like US$80 million annually - supports United Soybean’s program to “strengthen the position of soybeans in the marketplace and maintain and expand domestic and foreign markets for uses for soybeans and soybean products”. State soybean councils from Maryland, Nebraska, Delaware, Arkansas, Virginia, North Dakota and Michigan provide another $2.5 million for “research”. Private companies like Archer Daniels Midland also contribute their share. ADM spent $4.7 million for advertising on \*Meet the Press[/i[ and $4.3 million on _Face the Nation_ during the course of a year. Public relations firms help convert research projects into newspaper articles and advertising copy, and law firms lobby for favourable government regulations. IMF money funds soy processing plants in foreign countries, and free trade policies keep soybean abundance flowing to overseas destinations. > > The push for more soy has been relentless and global in its reach. Soy protein is now found in most supermarket breads. It is being used to transform “the humble tortilla, Mexico’s corn-based staple food, into a protein-fortified ‘super-tortilla’ that would give a nutritional boost to the nearly 20 million Mexicans who live in extreme poverty”. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/9 "2004-04-05T22:07:44Z")
Dr. Mercola is one of many doctors whose predictions I take with a grain of salt, but he’s not the only one who’s worried about soy. [This site](http://www.wholesoystory.com/) presents the other side of the story, and might be worth looking at. ---
**Author:** ![Saranga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Saranga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saranga)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/10 "2004-04-06T21:03:30Z")
And for the other side of the other side of the story you could [look here](http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/davis_soy_safe.htm). You will notice that a couple of the links on that site are trying to sell books or push products, but so is the link that **ultrafilter** posted. Soy is big business. So is the meat industry. Like the Atkins diet, or any dietary issue for that matter, it’s difficult for a layman to know what to believe when the “experts” contradict each other. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/11 "2004-04-06T21:44:47Z")
> [@Saranga](#): > > Soy is big business. So is the meat industry. Like the Atkins diet, or any dietary issue for that matter, it’s difficult for a layman to know what to believe when the “experts” contradict each other. Agreed. For what it’s worth, the UK Food Standards Agency (the equivalent of the FDA) is [mildly concerned](http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/phytoestrogen_draft_report) about health effects of phytoestrogens: > [@](#): > > The Working Group’s recommendations include that soy-based infant formulae should only be given to infants for clinical reasons, and that doctors and other health-care workers are made aware of the potential interactions between phytoestrogens in these formulae and thyroid function. You can also read an interview with the author of the site I linked to earlier [here](http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/302poison.jsp) and use that to inform your opinion. Personally, I’d like independent verification of some of her claims. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-soy/238369/12 "2004-04-06T23:18:15Z")
> [@Saranga](#): > > And for the other side of the other side of the story you could [look here](http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/davis_soy_safe.htm). You will notice that a couple of the links on that site are trying to sell books or push products, but so is the link that **ultrafilter** posted. > > Soy is big business. So is the meat industry. Like the Atkins diet, or any dietary issue for that matter, it’s difficult for a layman to know what to believe when the “experts” contradict each other. Exactly. And it’s like a giant circle-jerk (if you’ll pardon the expression), because when you try to find verifiable information from reputable sources, most of what you come up with are the same 3 or 4 people, who all reference each other’s sites. Just try to find any information on hypothyroidism that doesn’t lead you right back to Mary Shomon, _“The”_ purported expert in the field. Except that she’s not a doctor and not a scientist. She’s a layperson, just like me, who happens to suffer from that disease and has apparently done a lot of research and, wait for it… wrote a book and sells some supplements. It’s extremely annoying. And I’m sorry, but the cite you reference is very obviously biased. Right off the bat they resort to name-calling, referring to anyone who says soy could potentially be bad for you as “soy bashers” and “anti-soy advocates.” It looks like just a bunch of arm-flailing to me, as they’re short on facts and references and long on defensiveness. All the links they do provide lead only to newsletters on other sites about vegetarianism or “diet guru” types, who only report on their own “interpretation” of studies that they never actually show you. Granted, the so-called “soy bashers” are also writing “op-ed” style pieces, but at least they offer quotes by scientists, doctors and experts in the field (Daniel Doerge, a research scientist for the Food and Drug Administration and Dr. Claude Hughes, director of the Women’s Health Center at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles being two examples) and offer an extensive list of references. And at least the “anti-soy” websites [provide links](http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/thyroid.htm) that take you directly to [reports](http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/worddocs/phytoreport10.doc) (.doc file) from reputable organizations, such as the UK Food Standards Agency where you can read the science behind the claims. And not only does the UK Food Standards Agency agree that there are some concerns, as **ultrafilter** also points out above, but so does the FDA. > [@](#): > > [http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300\_soy.html](http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html) > > The problem, researchers say, is that isoflavones are phytoestrogens, a weak form of estrogen that could have a drug-like effect in the body. This may be pronounced in postmenopausal women, and some studies suggest that high isoflavone levels might increase the risk of cancer, particularly breast cancer. Research data, however, are far from conclusive, and some studies show just the opposite–that under some conditions, soy may help prevent breast cancer. It is this scientific conundrum, where evidence simultaneously points to benefits and possible risks, that is causing some researchers to urge caution. > > \ > > Daniel Sheehan, Ph.D., director of the Estrogen Knowledge Base Program at FDA’s National Center for Toxicological Research, also urges caution in consumption of soy isoflavones. In formal comments submitted to the public record of his own agency while FDA was reviewing the health claim, Sheehan, along with colleague Daniel Doerge, Ph.D., wrote, “While isoflavones may have beneficial effects at some ages or circumstances, this cannot be assumed to be true at all ages. Isoflavones are like other estrogens in that they are two-edged swords, conferring both benefits and risks.” > > \ > > NCTR’s Sheehan says research is needed in this area because an earlier study, published in 1997 in the medical journal The Lancet, showed that infants consuming soy formula had five to 10 times higher levels of isoflavones in their blood serum than women receiving soy supplements who show menstrual cycle disturbances. He says these levels may cause toxicological effects. “Infants receive higher doses of soy and isoflavones than anybody because it is their only food and they are consuming it all the time.” The American Academy of Pediatrics, however, has published guidelines showing that in some cases, soy protein-based formulas “are appropriate for use in infants” when cow’s milk cannot be tolerated. > > Sheehan also expresses concern about the effects soy may have on the function of the thyroid gland. Animal study results, some of which date back to 1959, link soy isoflavones to possible thyroid disorders, such as goiter. A 1997 study in Biochemical Pharmacology identified genistein and daidzein as inhibitors of thyroid peroxidase, which data suggest may prompt goiter and autoimmune disorders of the thyroid. Critics of these studies suggest that iodine deficiency may be a factor that needs to be considered when evaluating study results. For me, especially because I suffer from Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis (Hypothyroidism), the bottom line is that the default position that “soy is very healthy” cannot be assumed to be absolute and any soy consumption should be done with caution.