# Why St. Peter at the gates? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322 "2005-03-26T05:33:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/1 "2005-03-26T05:33:44Z")
How did the popular perception that new arrivals in heaven are greeted by St. Peter come about? I mean, how could anyone think they could count on him to be honest about a lowly mortal’s status in the record book, after he betrayed Jesus three times? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/2 "2005-03-26T05:37:00Z")
He got past that 2000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/3 "2005-03-26T05:57:06Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t he at the crucifixion with Mary? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/4 "2005-03-26T06:06:33Z")
Peter at the gates is derived from Matthew 16:19 > [@](#): > > And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. That pretty much makes Peter the gatekeeper. To the second point: The story of Peter is often contrasted to the story of Judas. _Each_ of the betray Jesus. However, Peter is able to accept forgiveness and is redeemed while Judas cannot consider forgiveness, despairs, and comits suicide. Peter frequently appears as the most impulsive apostle, constantly blurting out stupid remarks and missing the point or even doing stupid things, (putting his clothes _on_ to leap out of a boat into a lake to greet Jesus), but he is also portrayed as the apostle who placed the most faith in Jesus. For this reason, in the preceding verse, Jesus punned about making him the "rock"upon which He would found His church. (Leaving aside later disputes about the papacy, Jesus was clearly investing a great faith in Peter, as well.) ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/5 "2005-03-26T06:51:00Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > How did the popular perception that new arrivals in heaven are greeted by St. Peter come about? I mean, how could anyone think they could count on him to be honest about a lowly mortal’s status in the record book, after he betrayed Jesus three times? Actually, he Denied Jesus three times. Judas did the betraying. Apparently Jesus felt there was enough of a difference to make Peter his spirtual sucessor anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/6 "2005-03-26T07:01:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > To the second point: The story of Peter is often contrasted to the story of Judas. _Each_ of the betray Jesus. However, Peter is able to accept forgiveness and is redeemed while Judas cannot consider forgiveness, despairs, and comits suicide. I have never uderstood Judas’ consignment to hell for his transgression. Was he not fulfilling the word of God, and therefore his will? ---
**Author:** ![Israfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/87869e/32.png) [@Israfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Israfel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/7 "2005-03-26T07:09:49Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I have never uderstood Judas’ consignment to hell for his transgression. Was he not fulfilling the word of God, and therefore his will? The Church has not officially declared that any particular person, including Judas, is in hell. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/8 "2005-03-26T07:22:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Peter at the gates is derived from > Matthew 16:19 > That pretty much makes Peter the gatekeeper. > > To the second point: The story of Peter is often contrasted to the story of Judas. _Each_ of the betray Jesus. However, Peter is able to accept forgiveness and is redeemed while Judas cannot consider forgiveness, despairs, and comits suicide. > > Peter frequently appears as the most impulsive apostle, constantly blurting out stupid remarks and missing the point or even doing stupid things, (putting his clothes _on_ to leap out of a boat into a lake to greet Jesus), but he is also portrayed as the apostle who placed the most faith in Jesus. For this reason, in the preceding verse, Jesus punned about making him the "rock"upon which He would found His church. (Leaving aside later disputes about the papacy, Jesus was clearly investing a great faith in Peter, as well.) I see. Thank you. **HPL** : Dagnabbit; you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/9 "2005-03-26T12:39:37Z")
> [@Israfel](#): > > The Church has not officially declared that any particular person, including Judas, is in hell. > [@](#): > > The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born. (Matt. 26:24) You’re right, it is not officially taught. But I think this verse is the clincher. If Judas ends up in heaven, any amount of temporary suffering (in purgatory, or anywhere) would be worth the ultimate benefit. The only circumstance where it would be better for him if he had not been born, it seems to me, is if he ends up eternally suffering. Is there any other logical inference (logical within the context of any Christian belief system)? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/10 "2005-03-26T15:39:11Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > You’re right, it is not officially taught. But I think this verse is the clincher. If Judas ends up in heaven, any amount of temporary suffering (in purgatory, or anywhere) would be worth the ultimate benefit. The only circumstance where it would be better for him if he had not been born, it seems to me, is if he ends up eternally suffering. Is there any other logical inference (logical within the context of any Christian belief system)? Judas’s worst sin was surrendering to despair, letting guilt drive him to kill himself rather than drive him back to Christ. However, there are different ways of interpreting things. That particular verse just may be Jesus saying that it would be better for Him if that betrayer had not been born, not that it would have been better for the betrayer not to have been born. Unlikely, I admit, but remotely possible. Also, there are other interpretations of how Judas died- the Matthew passage indicating he hanged himself has also been interpreted that he went off choked-up. And even a suggestion that his death in Acts 1 might have been a murder ordered by the officials to shut Judas up. Again- unlikely, but intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/11 "2005-03-26T19:52:16Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > That particular verse just may be Jesus saying that it would be better for Him if that betrayer had not been born, not that it would have been better for the betrayer not to have been born. Unlikely, I admit, but remotely possible. Unlikely, indeed. I don’t see anyway to torture this verse into any interpretation where “that man” doesn’t refer to the betrayer. Perhaps the orginal Aramaic offers such flexibility, 'cause the English version sure ain’t doing the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/12 "2005-03-26T19:59:30Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I have never uderstood Judas’ consignment to hell for his transgression. Was he not fulfilling the word of God, and therefore his will? In a story by Jorge Luis Borges, Judas is the actual Redeemer, who is truly despised through the ages and who truly suffers for mankind. Jesus, on the other hand, is the expedient, the sidekick, the one who must be there to facilitate the work of Judas, who was the real sacrifice, who didn’t (as some Doper once brilliantly phrased it) merely give up a weekend for your sins. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/13 "2005-03-29T01:12:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Peter at the gates is derived from > Matthew 16:19 > That pretty much makes Peter the gatekeeper. Which begs the question: Why does heaven need a gate surrounding it, or angels with keys to open the gates? Is it to keep people out, or is it to keep people _in_? Euth ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/14 "2005-03-29T01:24:04Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > You’re right, it is not officially taught. But I think this verse is the clincher. If Judas ends up in heaven, any amount of temporary suffering (in purgatory, or anywhere) would be worth the ultimate benefit. The only circumstance where it would be better for him if he had not been born, it seems to me, is if he ends up eternally suffering. Is there any other logical inference (logical within the context of any Christian belief system)? I imagine that the guilt of having betrayed Jesus could be considered worse then never having been born to a true beliver, even if that person was able to go to heavan in the end. Alternatively, Jesus may have just been pissed at Judas when he said that, not passing divine judgement on him. He is human after all, when nailed to the cross he accusses God of having forsaken him. Since I don’t think anyone actually assumes that God really forsoke Jesus when he was dying, I think we can assume that the Jesus in the Gospels occasionally speaks out of emotion and pain, and that not every word that comes out of his mouth is absolutely true. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/15 "2005-03-29T01:55:13Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > How did the popular perception that new arrivals in heaven are greeted by St. Peter come about? I mean, how could anyone think they could count on him to be honest about a lowly mortal’s status in the record book, after he betrayed Jesus three times? He was forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/16 "2005-03-29T05:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Why does heaven need a gate surrounding it, or angels with keys to open the gates? Is it to keep people out, or is it to keep people in? It doesn’t hav a gate as far as we know. Don’t confuse popular imagination with doctrine. We also probably won’t see St. Peter actually sitting there dressed in white with the Book of Life, either. Sorry, real life and/or death just isn’t going to be a Hallmark Moment ™. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/17 "2005-03-29T07:17:36Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Don’t confuse popular imagination with doctrine. You’ll have to excuse me, I thought it was _ **all** _ popular imagination. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/18 "2005-03-29T07:30:09Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > You’ll have to excuse me, I thought it was _ **all** _ popular imagination. Yes, yes, you don’t believe in Jesus or God or Heaven. We get it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/19 "2005-03-29T07:59:18Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Which begs the question: > > Why does heaven need a gate surrounding it, or angels with keys to open the gates? Is it to keep people out, or is it to keep people _in_? Actually, this has nothing to do with [begging the question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question) although it may prompt a follow-up question. The imagery that Jesus uses in many of his parables and even his direct statements generally follow the traditions of the popular concepts of the time. Many of those beliefs were encapsulated, (or, perhaps, created), in a number of inspirational works that are generally known as intertestamental works (with particular works among them identified as _apocrypha_. A number of these works, generally written between 200 B.C.E. and 100 C.E., spent a lot of time and manuscript exploring the locations of the afterlife, (either for those rewarded or for those punished). These works sometimes contain elaborate descriptions of heaven and paradise or hell (or sheol or hades). Since these works were widely known at the time that Jesus preached, many of his descriptions draw on the imagery found in these works. Most likely, the heaven that got “gates” was patterned after the houses of the wealthy or the buildings holding government offices. In that case, the gates would have been a “standard” feature causing no comment. They were “defensive” gates. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322/20 "2005-03-29T11:00:33Z")
Heaven is a gated community – I _knew_ it! _And Jesus said unto them, “It is easier for a Hummer to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God! But if you’ve got that ‘Don’t let the car fool you, my treasure is in heaven’ sticker on the back, we’ll make an exception.”_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-st-peter-at-the-gates/296322.md?page=2)