# Why Star Trek (TOS) was a great franchise (and is now DEAD) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323 "2008-10-17T03:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/61 "2008-10-17T22:04:58Z")
I don’t see any reason to believe that the new Trek won’t fall under the second category you list. There are still a lot of stories to tell about the Federation, and for many people, TAS and the novelizations don’t exist at all. That means that we all “know” they were on a five year mission, we all “know” events happened prior to the series (it’s not like **Where No Man’s Gone** opened with everybody meeting and getting to know each other), and that means we all know there are worlds and civilizations that the TOS crew met that we never got to see. Why not explore that? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/62 "2008-10-17T22:28:51Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > If I recall correctly, Ellison had some harsh words (big surprise, I know) about Niven-- I think it was Niven-- boasting that he just re-sold one of his old short stories as a TV script just by changing the names of the main characters to “Kirk” and “Spock.” Well, I’ve read some Ellison, and while he had some good days, IMO _The Soft Weapon_ kicked industrial-strength ass, and I’ve enjoyed Larry a fair bit more than Harlan. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/63 "2008-10-17T22:41:35Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Any technology sufficiently advanced will be indistinguishable from magic. I think it is actually Clarke’s Third Law (but the most popular.) The first two are in **Profiles of the Future.** ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/64 "2008-10-17T22:46:18Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > If I recall correctly, Ellison had some harsh words (big surprise, I know) about Niven-- I think it was Niven-- boasting that he just re-sold one of his old short stories as a TV script just by changing the names of the main characters to “Kirk” and “Spock.” IIRC, Uhura had a big part in that show. It obviously didn’t make it into Alan Dean Fosters versions of the story, though. It actually wasn’t a bad episode. I thought their personal shields in that show were cool - clearly done to help with the animation, but still good. > [@](#): > > In fairness, they also did the alien abduction thing in TOS, kinda sorta, with “Tomorrow is Yesterday.” Of course they eventually fixed things so it never happened in the first place, so maybe it doesn’t count anyway. > > “I never did believe in little green men…” > > :dubious: “Neither have I.” > > :eek: > Goddamn, what a great show. TOS will never die. That was an excellent line. In any case, it isn’t abduction without you being in bed and anal probing. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/65 "2008-10-17T22:47:54Z")
Clarke’s Lesser Known Laws: Any SF book series sufficiently extended will be indistinguishable from ghostwriting. Any SF author sufficiently elderly will be indistinguishable from a CHICK MAGNET. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/66 "2008-10-18T01:18:17Z")
This reminds me of a post I once did where I told how I would reimagine Star Trek TOS if I were creating the franchise from scratch. If I may repeat myself: Backstory: in the late twenty-first century, a series of conflicts broke out variously referred to as the Eugenics Wars or sometimes World War Three. The impetus was the application of cybernetic and genetic technology by various “transhuman” movements, and the inevitable conflicts that arose between competing ideologies. At about the same time, practical fusion drives were perfected and a mini-black hole was discovered in the outer Kupier belt which could be used in a flyby to boost ships up to 99% lightspeed. The conflict ended with Earth and the rest of the solar system controlled by traditionalist-conservative factions who believed in humanity “as is”, and banned most artificial alterations. The various defeated transhuman groups fled the solar system to parts unknown. Centuries later: Twenty years before the time of the show, Earth invented the first warp drive and began exploring the surrounding galaxy. Tentative contact with the peoples of the nearby systems such as Alpha Centauri led to the formation of the Federation. The descendents of the emigrant groups are human in some ways, yet bizarrely alien in various others; keeping the Federation together is an ongoing diplomatic headache. At the start of the series: The Enterprise is Earth’s first ship built entirely as a warp-capable vessel (instead of a retrofit), and will be faster, better armed and armored, and more capable than anything built before. Chosen for command is Kirk, the captain with the most distinguished record in the Federation fleet… He and the crew of the Enterprise will have as their primary mission first contact with the various human-descended groups that no one has seen for centuries, as the Enterprise explores systems hundreds of lightyears from Sol. Many of the aliens seen on Star Trek already fit this scenerio. The Borg are the extreme of the cybernetic hive-mind faction. The Vulcans used genetic engineering to mute their emotions and give themselves voluntary control over most of their body functions. The Klingons are descended from militaristic “supermen” from the Eugenics Wars, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/67 "2008-10-18T01:24:31Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Yes, many science fiction novelests do it all the time. The problem is in getting the 'tards that run the studios to go for the idea. One thing that _could_ work (if done properly) and AFAIK, hasn’t been really done in a series format is humans tearing around the solar system. Keep the tech fairly simple (say 10+ years more advanced than what we have now), hire decent writers and actors and go for it. > > Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as “Wagon Train in space,” there’s no reason we couldn’t do that in the solar system. Sure, you’re _not_ going to have aliens as a source of conflict, but there’s _plenty_ of human conflict that can be exploited. You can have nations vying for resources in space against one another, or you can put a multi-national crew on the same ship/base/station and hash out the conflicts which would naturally occur when you cram wildly different people into a small space. Add a dash of technical problems every now and then, and you’ve got drama. Instead of Wagon Train in Space, let’s have: The West Wing in Space. I like it. No really, I do! -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/68 "2008-10-18T01:27:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Instead of Wagon Train in Space, let’s have: > > The West Wing in Space. > > I like it. No really, I do! > > -FrL- Or maybe _Law & Order: International Space Station_! 😃 (You could make the “ka-thunk-a-thunk” sound be that of an airlock door closing.) ---
**Author:** ![De\_La\_Rue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@De\_La\_Rue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/De_La_Rue)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/69 "2008-10-18T02:07:42Z")
It reminds me of the setup the author Eric Frank Russell used in one of his stories, in which various subcultures take to the stars after the invention of a cheap and powerful spaceship engine, and years later the government sends out a ship to make contact with them. Makes sense if you want a Star Trek-ish setting. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/70 "2008-10-21T14:50:39Z")
> [@De\_La\_Rue](#): > > It reminds me of the setup the author Eric Frank Russell used in one of his stories, in which various subcultures take to the stars after the invention of a cheap and powerful spaceship engine, and years later the government sends out a ship to make contact with them. Makes sense if you want a Star Trek-ish setting. In a way, that _was_ the Star Trek setting, in that some of the planets they visited were populated by beings that looked perfectly human but might’ve been in isolation for a century or more. I figure the three most likely examples are the “Cloud Minders”; the Middle-Eastern-ish planet of Argellius II (“Wolf in the Fold”); and the Scalosians (“Wink of an Eye”). NextGen and beyond would wimp out, though. Instead of saying “this is what happens when human extremists get their way”, they would simply make _all_ encounters be with aliens, who are readily identified by their latex nose appliances of varying degrees of ridiculousness. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/71 "2008-10-21T16:22:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In a way, that _was_ the Star Trek setting, in that some of the planets they visited were populated by beings that looked perfectly human but might’ve been in isolation for a century or more. I figure the three most likely examples are the “Cloud Minders”; the Middle-Eastern-ish planet of Argellius II (“Wolf in the Fold”); and the Scalosians (“Wink of an Eye”). > > NextGen and beyond would wimp out, though. Instead of saying “this is what happens when human extremists get their way”, they would simply make _all_ encounters be with aliens, who are readily identified by their latex nose appliances of varying degrees of ridiculousness. Unfair! You’re forgetting that one TNG episode with the society of clones and the Space Irish. Although I suppose the prominent capillary damage the Space Irish tend to suffer due to their uncontrollable alcoholism might substitute for a “nose appliance.” I think it’s kind of a shame that the drunken Space Irish colony leader never reappeared in the series. He could have been Picard’s Khan, bent on revenge after having been marooned on a planet with no grains from which to distill whisky. _“O’GILLLLLL!!!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/72 "2008-10-21T19:40:36Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Unfair! You’re forgetting that one TNG episode with the society of clones and the Space Irish. Although I suppose the prominent capillary damage the Space Irish tend to suffer due to their uncontrollable alcoholism might substitute for a “nose appliance.” I think it’s kind of a shame that the drunken Space Irish colony leader never reappeared in the series. He could have been Picard’s Khan, bent on revenge after having been marooned on a planet with no grains from which to distill whisky. > > _“O’GILLLLLL!!!”_ And you’re forgetting the “token black planet” where an advanced technological civilization still dressed like they were African tribes (and it was a case of “parallel development” like the Native American planet in TOS ). ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323/73 "2008-10-21T20:14:39Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > And you’re forgetting the “token black planet” where an advanced technological civilization still dressed like they were African tribes (and it was a case of “parallel development” like the Native American planet in TOS ). I wasn’t forgetting them, I was ignoring them. Or trying to. But the “I am Kirok!” Indians weren’t a parallel development; they were originally from Earth, seeded on that planet by the alien Preservers. Ironically you’ve chosen one of the “Earth-parallel” societies that TOS actually tried to justify with an explanation, instead of just remarking on what an amazing coincidence that this planet “happens to resemble Earth, mid-twentieth century” or whatever. Which happened unreasonably often, even for 1960’s TV sci-fi-- Offhand I can think of “Miri,” “Bread and Circuses,” “Return of the Archons,” and that one with the Yangs vs. the Kohms. I believe they even tried to address it with some throwaway line about a principle of “parallel planet development,” or something like that (although that may have just been in the novelizations). Planet Africa in TNG, on the other hand, had no such excuse to fall back on. They were a random alien culture who just happened to resemble black Africans, dressed suspiciously similarly to Black Africans, and had a culture that encouraged the practice of stealing white women. In general, TNG had no real need for alien planets with Earth-parallel societies. Whenever they wanted to endanger the crew in a historic Earth environment, they simply had the holodeck malfunction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-star-trek-tos-was-a-great-franchise-and-is-now-dead/468323.md?page=3)