# Why tell a reporter something "off the record"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802 "2017-07-21T15:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/21 "2017-07-21T19:28:32Z")
There is no such thing as “off the record”. It does not exist anywhere, especially if the news media is involved. They have no scruples and no loyalty. They are only looking for the “gotcha” and a way to sell their news. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/22 "2017-07-21T19:58:47Z")
I’m not a reporter but I have dealt with a few. “Off the record” is a pretty vague term, but it often means “don’t use my name with this quote.” Sometimes sources will direct the attribution that can be used, eg “a person with knowledge of the situation” or “a senior national security official.” Reporters won’t print something that’s a lie though–like calling a source a congressional aide when really they’re the secretary of Defense. “Not for attribution” means something like “you can use this information, but you can’t say I said it.” No direct quotes. There’s also “on background,” which usually means “you can’t print/broadcast this information that I’m telling you. But you can use what I am telling you as a starting point to search out more information and other sources to confirm what I said.” Why do the sources do it? To advance their agendas, or more charitably, tell their side of the story. Why do reporters allow it? Because that’s how they get stories. If you read a lot of stories on the same subject you can often figure out who the sources are by how they speak, by how they are described, and the context of the information. But the most skilled leakers are well versed in using language that sounds like someone else, and asking for attributions that are somewhat a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/23 "2017-07-21T20:20:28Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > There is no such thing as “off the record”. It does not exist anywhere, especially if the news media is involved. They have no scruples and no loyalty. They are only looking for the “gotcha” and a way to sell their news. **Moderator Note** **Oddball\_92** , professional jabs are not permitted in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator PS. I note that several journalists have gone to jail and suffered other consequences because they refused to reveal their sources. ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/24 "2017-07-21T22:15:24Z")
[related - which anonymous sources are worth paying attention to](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-anonymous-sources-are-worth-paying-attention-to/) P.S. - I assume reporters have regular sources. If a source feeds bad info to the reporter, part of me wishes the reporter would burn the source ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/25 "2017-07-21T22:38:57Z")
Off the record is also a good way to keep the reporter quiet until the source is ready to break the story. Let’s say a reporter gets wind that Microsoft and Apple are in talks about a merger. Breaking that story would play havoc with stock prices, cause competitors to react in all sorts of ways, wake up government regulators and all manner of other side effects. So “the source” makes a deal with the reporter. Keep the story quiet and I’ll give you all sorts of juicy tidbits that will make your story 100X better than the boilerplate news release we send the Wall Street Journal. And if word gets out that the merger fell through, you’ll know why. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/26 "2017-07-21T22:48:16Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > There is no such thing as “off the record”. It does not exist anywhere, especially if the news media is involved. They have no scruples and no loyalty. They are only looking for the “gotcha” and a way to sell their news. Just for the record, this is a nonsensical generalization. Could a reporter sometime, somewhere, for some reason have revealed off the record information? Sure. As long as human beings are involved, stuff happens. In our real world this seldom occurs and for a slew of reasons. Reporters are professionals. Most of the sources likely to have off the record information - politicians, corporate types, lobbyists - are also professionals. They know who to talk to and how and when to talk to them. Off the record information is stuff they want reporters to know. Reporters know that their sources will get cut off if they betray them for no good reasons. Word would get around in a hurry. Probably publicly in today’s world. If reporters regularly printed off the record information everybody would know it. To function at all, reporters have to have higher trustworthiness than anybody else. I’m talking real reporters, of course, from the real mainstream media. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/27 "2017-07-21T23:13:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just for the record, this is a nonsensical generalization. Could a reporter sometime, somewhere, for some reason have revealed off the record information? Sure. As long as human beings are involved, stuff happens. > > In our real world this seldom occurs and for a slew of reasons. Reporters are professionals. Most of the sources likely to have off the record information - politicians, corporate types, lobbyists - are also professionals. They know who to talk to and how and when to talk to them. Off the record information is stuff they want reporters to know. Reporters know that their sources will get cut off if they betray them for no good reasons. Word would get around in a hurry. Probably publicly in today’s world. > > If reporters regularly printed off the record information everybody would know it. To function at all, reporters have to have higher trustworthiness than anybody else. I’m talking real reporters, of course, from the real mainstream media. I have worked in public service for almost 40 years and have had numerous encounters with news media types. I do not want to violate this boards policy so I will not go into details only to say my opinion was formed by first hand experience. No further comments by me on this . ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/28 "2017-07-21T23:36:04Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > I have worked in public service for almost 40 years and have had numerous encounters with news media types. I do not want to violate this boards policy so I will not go into details only to say my opinion was formed by first hand experience. No further comments by me on this . And I’m an experienced journalist (not in the US, admittedly) and **Exapno** ’s characterisation is far more accurate than yours, in my personal and professional experience. Anyway, “Off the record” basically means “Do not quote me on this”, but that’s different to using an anonymous source. Journalists in Australia are professionally obligated to avoid using anonymous sources unless it’s absolutely critical, but once information is accepted on an “anonymous” basis it must remain so to the absolute best of the journalist’s ability and in all circumstances. To give you a generic example: Let’s say the city council has approved a development application for land, which has been rubber stamped faster than usual. One of the councillors might tell a reporter “Look, off the record it got approval so quickly because the land is supposed to be haunted and the last sale fell over because of it”, while the official council version might be “Council has approved this development as it complies with all the planning requirements and is in keeping with the city plan for the area”. Also, as mentioned in a previous thread on a subject, there’s often situations where a person isn’t authorised to speak on behalf of an organisation, but they’re doing so anyway - however, having their name attached to the comments could get them in trouble or fired. Speaking “Off the record” means the journalist can get the information needed, especially if the organisation’s official line is clearly bullshit or stonewalling. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/29 "2017-07-21T23:52:37Z")
The reason reporters respect the gradations of “off the record” is, as said above, so they can maintain their sources. There is a danger though of reporters becoming “captive” to the anonymous sources–they always go running to the same few people for juicy quotes, even if there’s more/another side to the story. I’ve never been burned in my dealings with reporters–unless it was my own fault for running my mouth and not thinking to say “this is off the record” first. I have had occasion to have “on background” conversations and the information can run both ways–the reporter learns something, I learn something. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/30 "2017-07-22T01:52:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m curious. What are these ethical judgments? Are there some things that even if the reporter agrees I can tell them off of the record, once they hear the thing, his ethics compel him to publish? > > For example: > > Me: I have something to tell you, but I want assurances that this is off the record. > Reporter: Absolutely. > Me: I had sex with a donkey/am a Russian agent who hacked emails at the behest of Trump/molested a child/slept with your wife. > Reporter: I’m sorry. Although I assured you that your comment was off the record, my ethics compel me to publish or otherwise disclose what you just told me. > > ? > > ETA: Suppose it is not a mandatory ethical disclosure. If it is really, really juicy, can a reporter ethically lie to me and report it anyways? Having been completely screwed over by two journalists in my life (one writing for Bloomberg News, the other for American Lawyer), my take on “journalists’ ethics” is that they’ll do whatever they need to do to get a good story. Often, that would involve protecting a source, because having a reputation for protecting sources is helpful. Without it, sources won’t talk to the journalist at all. But if burning a source helps them, or they can trade the source for a bigger story, or curry favor with a big source who will give them big stories in the future, they’ll do it in a heartbeat. One journalist for a well-known news organization actually told me that sometimes he would slant a story to favor someone in return for a promise of future cooperation. I’m not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/31 "2017-07-22T02:49:48Z")
Watch _All the President’s Men_, and you will understand this term. ---
**Author:** ![Rosvirein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rosvirein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rosvirein)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/32 "2017-07-23T03:39:17Z")
someone like a janitor or cook who works at the whitehouse could see the president’s wife throwing a lamp at him, and tell a reporter “off-the-record” because he doesn’t want to get in trouble for telling stories like that. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/33 "2017-07-23T07:38:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m curious. What are these ethical judgments? Are there some things that even if the reporter agrees I can tell them off of the record, once they hear the thing, his ethics compel him to publish? Ethics are hard. Serious professional journalists probably have some of the more tricky ones. There is nothing hard and fast in ethics. If there was a simple rule book it wouldn’t be difficult, but in some ways, ethics are the compass you need when there isn’t a simple book of rules (and also a compass that tell you when to ignore the rule book.) In principle a journalist doesn’t operate in his own, his editor carries the ultimate call, and responsibility. But that is just a problem shared, not one solved. > [@](#): > > For example: > > Me: I have something to tell you, but I want assurances that this is off the record. > Reporter: Absolutely. > Me: I had sex with a donkey/am a Russian agent who hacked emails at the behest of Trump/molested a child/slept with your wife. > Reporter: I’m sorry. Although I assured you that your comment was off the record, my ethics compel me to publish or otherwise disclose what you just told me. Reporter wouldn’t be telling you on the spot that he was going to report it. You would find out in the papers. > [@](#): > > ETA: Suppose it is not a mandatory ethical disclosure. If it is really, really juicy, can a reporter ethically lie to me and report it anyways? Really really juicy - ie just plain scandal? Probably not. But you are taking a chance no matter what. As we now evolved to - there are different standards applied to people in the public eye and public life to ordinary folk. If POTUS was to say to a reporter that he slept with Putin’s wife, off the record would probably be ignored. But there is no hard and fast rule. Reporter would balance up the fact that POTUS would never talk to him again, and possibly never deal with his paper again, against: public good, public right to know (a slippery concept if ever there was one) and the value of the information in current context. Ordinary Joe’s indulging in bestiality is probably not in the public interest to report (but maybe the reporter is doing an investigative piece on the subject, so you might want to be careful). If you were a Russian agent claiming to have hacked emails, life will get interesting. Reporter will balance up whether you will be a continuing source of even more useful information, or whether your usefulness as a source has now been exceeded by the value of the information already divulged. Unless you were a public figure (which is probably limited to the Russian ambassador, but not any of the diplomatic staff) you would probably not be named, but would be a person of serious interest to the FBI, NSA, etc, and the reporter would be in defence of source’s anonymity mode. Serious crimes (especially child molestation) are not going to get you any protection whatsoever. Whether the information is published or just passed to the police is up to reporter, but nobody, reporter, or whoever, gets an ethical bye on reporting serious crime. If you told the reporter you slept with his wife, we would probably assume this isn’t anything to do with public information (unless you were POTUS etc) and just a domestic dispute. Ethical journalists don’t get to air their own dirty laundry in public, and don’t get to use their position for private revenge. Back when I used to teach ethics to the engineers, we used a neat set of simple tests to think about ethical problems. The Kallman and Grillo tests. This is neat as it cuts across professions (although it was originally targetted to allow computer professionals to think about ethics\*), and IMHO allows anyone to think about the problems. Individual professions often have much more targetted and highly developed sets of ethics, but they never really gazump these simple ideas (again IMHO). Informal Guidelines 1. Is there something you or others would prefer to keep quiet? Are there “shushers” in the situation? Who wants to keep things quiet? Does it pass the Mom Test: Would you tell her? Would she do it? Does it pass the TV Test: Would you tell a nationwide audience? Does it pass the Market Test: Would advertising the activity gain you a market edge? 1. Does your instinct tell you something is wrong? Does it pass the Smell Test: Does the situation “smell?” Formal Guidelines Does the act violate company or institutional policy? Does the act violate company or professional codes of conduct or ethics? Does the act violate the Golden Rule? Is the act illegal? - Ethical Decision Making and Information Technology by Kallman and Grillo. McGraw-Hill/Irwin (1996) ISBN 10: 0070340900 ISBN 13: 9780070340909 ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/34 "2017-07-24T15:41:20Z")
In my experience, the people who have felt they were screwed by journalists had long, in-depth conversations with a reporter, only to end it by saying that everything they said was off the record. Sorry buddy, but if you want to talk to me off-the-record, you say that at the beginning of a conversation, not at the end. Changing the rules after the fact doesn’t sit well with anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/35 "2017-07-24T22:41:55Z")
Absolutely. You don’t get to tell me a whole bunch of awesome stuff and say “BTW, off the record” just as I switch the recorder off. That needs to be established up front. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/36 "2017-07-25T01:17:17Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > In my experience, the people who have felt they were screwed by journalists had long, in-depth conversations with a reporter, only to end it by saying that everything they said was off the record. > > Sorry buddy, but if you want to talk to me off-the-record, you say that at the beginning of a conversation, not at the end. Changing the rules after the fact doesn’t sit well with anyone. In my case, I was approached by a journalist, who had gotten my name through a mutual friend (another journalist). She was writing a story about something in which I had some peripheral involvement. She assured me that nothing I said would be attributed to me, and that if she contacted any people based on what I told her, she would do it in such a way that the source of her information could not be traced back to me. She did not do this. She flat-out gave me up to a high-ranking person in the organization about which the story was being written, in return for more material for her story, more than I had given her. In the other instance in which I was burned by a journalist, it was because of his sheer incompetence and stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/37 "2017-07-25T04:01:15Z")
Off the record can mean, “You can print what I say, you just can’t say I said it.” or it can mean, “This is just between you and me.” The most common kind of the latter statement just helps give better context. So for example, a reporter will ask, “The administration’s position on an individual mandate changed yesterday. Why?” And the answer will be something like, “The administration has recognized that a health care plan is impossible without an individual mandate. Off the record, opposition to the mandate was just a way to create contrast with Hillary Clinton’s health care plan and to win the votes of younger voters. Supporting a mandate once we got into office was always the plan.” What this does is build trust between the reporter and the source. The reporter reports the official talking points but knows he’ll get the straight dope along with it on other stories. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/38 "2017-07-25T04:52:22Z")
I would never in a million years trust a reporter or a cop if they were on the job when I was talking to them unless I seriously had something to gain from it. People who are telling stuff to reporters “off the record” are either idiots or have something to be gained from the information getting out in any form. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/39 "2017-07-25T19:15:33Z")
I was an off the record source for a series of stories. In my case, the reporter contacted me about an issue that I was somewhat familiar with. I told him he should really talk to this person and this person; later, the reporter came back to me with follow up questions to ground truth aspects of what he’d been told. I never would have reached out, but the reporter found me. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802/40 "2017-07-25T20:11:20Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I was an off the record source for a series of stories. In my case, the reporter contacted me about an issue that I was somewhat familiar with. I told him he should really talk to this person and this person; later, the reporter came back to me with follow up questions to ground truth aspects of what he’d been told. I never would have reached out, but the reporter found me. And, pursuant to other points in this thread, why were you willing to do that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-tell-a-reporter-something-off-the-record/791802.md?page=3)