# Why the fuck don't you listen? ("Good Samaritans" who force help on me) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 1, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314 "2017-07-01T23:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/61 "2017-07-02T17:18:34Z")
I didn’t mean to imply assholery on your part. Sorry if it sounded that way. I was just saying that there are frequently good reasons for letting someone in when traffic is heavy, and also that there are plenty of assholes who try extreme versions of getting to the far side of a road right out of a driveway or intersection and block traffic in the process and sometimes cause accidents. But in my view the rules are logically different when traffic isn’t particularly heavy, and if you’re not in a big city you may never see the situations I mentioned at all. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/62 "2017-07-02T17:23:05Z")
I’m glad at least a few people understand where you’re coming from, **Ambivalid**. Personally I would be awfully rude to anyone who “helped” me when I said no thanks. However, I wonder, since some here are suggesting that some people don’t know how to act with the disabled (um, like you act with other people, maybe?), perhaps if someone politely offers help, before they can escalate to giving it anyway, you might try saying “I’ve been doing this a long time and I am pretty good at it” or words to that effect? I know some people do not listen and the cure for them is nuke 'em from space, but maybe one or two people would think for a minute. Or not; sometimes I get too optimistic. TL/DR: Sorry people are Dicks, **Ambi**. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/63 "2017-07-02T17:31:01Z")
‘Over courteous’ drivers might be an analogy a lot more people can directly relate to, but it’s flawed IMO because IME there are _way_ more insufficiently courteous than too courteous drivers. The times somebody insistently blocks me from changing lanes just not to lose _one car length_ in their mad rush to get wherever they are going, compared to those who create a hazard by being too courteous…I don’t think I’m exaggerating much to put that around 100:1 where I drive. On top of which, in driving situations we’re mainly judging people’s initial judgment without any clear feed back. Whereas the main point of OP’s gripe as I see it is when people ignore clear feed back that their help isn’t wanted. It’s not so much that they initially set out to help in some ill advised way, like a driver making room where it just gums up the works overall. The fair partial counter point to OP’s complaint, already acknowledged, is that especially in some culture or sub cultures someone offered any favor is excepted to say ‘oh no that’s not necessary’ and the giver expected to ignore that statement, without some further evidence the potential recipient actually means it. With lack of common social calibration, that can leave both sides thinking the other is a jerk. I come from a relatively ‘say what you mean’ corner of western civilization, NY. I immediately back off if I ask if I can help somebody and they say ‘no’. Again partly [sub]cultural, not IMO necessarily moral superiority/inferiority. Maybe somebody who is insistent enough offering unwanted help is showing they are really more selfish than everyone else (but we’re a selfish species naturally IME), and I didn’t witness the incident mentioned. But while I can understand getting annoyed at that, I’m not as sure about reading the person’s heart to say ‘they only cared about themselves (and again compared to whom?)’. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/64 "2017-07-02T17:39:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply assholery on your part. Sorry if it sounded that way. I was just saying that there are frequently good reasons for letting someone in when traffic is heavy, and also that there are plenty of assholes who try extreme versions of getting to the far side of a road right out of a driveway or intersection and block traffic in the process and sometimes cause accidents. But in my view the rules are logically different when traffic isn’t particularly heavy, and if you’re not in a big city you may never see the situations I mentioned at all. I used to live in Jersey and drive in Philly, so I do know just what you’re talking about. Having lived now in Michigan, Jersey and Florida, I’ve found driving etiquette varies tremendously based on geography. I currently live in a metropolitan suburb of Detroit, which has a fair amount of traffic on a regular basis, but after driving daily on the NJ Turnpike, it doesn’t seem like much. I guess I was just trying to give a relatable example of how people’s ‘‘help’’ is sometimes not so helpful. [QUOTE=Broomstick] Oh - how DARE he get upset at total strangers climbing into his car, or disregarding what he says, or treating a grown man like a helpless child! [/QUOTE] This is an interesting observation that has made me realize I’m far too passive about stuff like this. I worry a lot about being perceived as mean, even when people are way out of line. This has bitten me on the ass [more than once.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435684) Maybe more people, including myself, should be comfortable loudly and clearly asserting when their boundaries are crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/65 "2017-07-02T19:13:06Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I sort of see your point, though I don’t think you can or should try to judge people’s motivations. I think “feeling good about oneself” for being helpful is in itself a virtue and need not be microanalyzed further. I do not try to judge anyone’s motivations. What I was referring to are the instances where those motivations are clearly and unambiguously communicated to me. I don’t think it requires too much interpreting to understand the motives of the guy in my OP who flat out told me he was going to “help” me anyway, despite my strenuous and repeated objections. The motive was not to make my day a little less difficult or to help out someone in need. It was solely to make himself feel better. Would you dispute that? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/66 "2017-07-02T19:23:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > There are people with just good intentions though. > > Do understand that most offers of help are well meaning. You know, just about every single mistreatment I experience is the result of “good intentions”. It’s what’s beneath those good intentions that is so jarring for me. It’s the assumptions and stereotypes that help to shape what “good intentions” even are. It’s not so much the action as it is the belief(s) that motivate that action. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/67 "2017-07-02T19:31:29Z")
Now that you know that the whole world is trying to help you, are you going to keep fighting it? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/68 "2017-07-02T19:37:50Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I do not try to judge anyone’s motivations. What I was referring to are the instances where those motivations are clearly and unambiguously communicated to me. I don’t think it requires too much interpreting to understand the motives of the guy in my OP who flat out told me he was going to “help” me anyway, despite my strenuous and repeated objections. The motive was not to make my day a little less difficult or to help out someone in need. It was solely to make himself feel better. Would you dispute that? I think you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that the person may be interpreting your refusal as polite reticence rather than being a genuine desire to be left the hell alone. To be clear, I totally agree with you that anyone who needs to be told “no” more than once is an ignorant dolt, but now we’re discussing motivation and the question is not whether they’re ignorant but whether they’re evil. Think through what you’re implying. If the person does in fact recognize that you don’t want help but is doing it anyway, then their idea of making themselves feel good must consist in doing malicious things just to piss you off. I know those kinds of people exist, but is this really what you mean? Wouldn’t a more realistic and charitable reading be “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/69 "2017-07-02T19:47:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Let’s get a lawyer in here: If a “good” Samaritan keeps “helping” after assistance is refused, is it assault? IANAL, but I believe that it can’t be assault as long as the Good Samaritan doesn’t physically touch the person. If the Good Samaritan does, then perhaps indeed, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/70 "2017-07-02T19:52:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I think you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that the person may be interpreting your refusal as polite reticence rather than being a genuine desire to be left the hell alone. To be clear, I totally agree with you that anyone who needs to be told “no” more than once is an ignorant dolt, but now we’re discussing motivation and the question is not whether they’re ignorant but whether they’re evil. > > Think through what you’re implying. If the person does in fact recognize that you don’t want help but is doing it anyway, then their idea of making themselves feel good must consist in doing malicious things just to piss you off. I know those kinds of people exist, but is this really what you mean? Wouldn’t a more realistic and charitable reading be “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”? Ok. I see your point. I can concede that in his twisted head, I repeatedly and strenuously rebuffed his offers only because I trying to be polite or remain proud or whatever. It doesn’t really change anything of substance in the story. But yes, guessing motive is a fool’s game that goes nowhere productive. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/71 "2017-07-02T19:54:06Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Now that you know that the whole world is trying to help you, are you going to keep fighting it? Excuse me? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/72 "2017-07-02T19:59:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > IANAL, but I believe that it can’t be assault as long as the Good Samaritan doesn’t physically touch the person. If the Good Samaritan does, then perhaps indeed, yes. [Not true](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault). > [@](#): > > Assault > At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. > An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery. > Statutory definitions of assault in the various jurisdictions throughout the United States are not substantially different from the common-law definition. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/73 "2017-07-02T20:03:17Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Now that you know that the whole world is trying to help you, are you going to keep fighting it? So you’re advice to me is to not get upset about any of the things I’ve described in the OP (and in subsequent posts)? Just accept it? Let strange men into my car whenever they want, let people take things out of my hands, have people ignore my direct wishes? And just accept it? Because they “mean well”? Is this honestly your advice? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/74 "2017-07-02T20:13:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Excuse me? Ignore him, he’s something of an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/75 "2017-07-02T20:18:51Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Ok. I see your point. I can concede that in his twisted head, I repeatedly and strenuously rebuffed his offers only because I trying to be polite or remain proud or whatever. It doesn’t really change anything of substance in the story. But yes, guessing motive is a fool’s game that goes nowhere productive. Thank you. This modification makes it hard to argue with your point. I know what annoys me. It’s typically much harder to be sure why people do things which annoy me. As wolfpup said, the situation as explained by you makes it seem this person isn’t very bright or sensitive, maybe very selfish but who knows and again compared to whom? You might find somebody who totally left you alone in the same situation to be far more selfish if you got to know them. All you can say for sure is they weren’t annoying you at that moment 🙂 I recall comedy scenes revolving around the vaguely analogous situation where somebody wants to pay somebody, say relatives, for something given or some favor done, and they then end up chasing each other around the room putting the money in the other person’s pocket. This isn’t always funny in real life. It can carry connotations about financial situation that are uncomfortable or potentially hurtful. We’re probably known to be better off than anyone else in our extended family. I don’t think we make any point of it (you’d have to ask them if that’s true from their POV) but I assume it’s known. So it’s not hurtful but still awkward and uncomfortable for us when other people in the family won’t let us pay for stuff as at a recent few day get together (like sneak off and give the waiter the card halfway through the meal, so what, we have to do it 1/4 of the way through next time?) Maybe it’s just left over from me being youngest of my siblings and cousins though we’re the older generation now. Why they actually do this I don’t know. I know it can be a bit annoying. Just another rough analogy perhaps more people experience directly. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/76 "2017-07-02T20:19:13Z")
I have a mental image of a Far Side cartoon with a guy in a wheelchair yelling at a puzzled looking guy whose T-shirt says “Dwayne’s Doorman School for the Deaf” on the back. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/77 "2017-07-02T20:32:03Z")
Considering this man who forced his help on me to be acting out of the best intentions actually goes to the point I made upthread. Namely, it’s the assumptions or beliefs that inform those “best intentions” that need changing. Something can be done out of the best of intentions and still be the wrong thing to do. It’s about what beliefs or perceptions or assumptions inform those intentions. _That_ is the issue. Someone believes it is the best, right thing to do to not listen to me and help me anyway. But _why_ do they (genuinely) believe that? Because they have a belief that the only reason I am protesting is because I’m too proud or stubborn to admit that I really do need the help. It’s that belief (and others) that are at the heart of this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/78 "2017-07-02T20:33:07Z")
I saw a thread indapit from **Ambi** and at first I was like **“Sweet!”** and then I saw the OP and I was like,“fuck, I don’t really feel like reading all this shit.” And then I looked at my clock and saw it was about 1:15PM and then I looked at my kitchen and I was like, “I could probably get that shit clean in like 10-15 minutes and then put that box-o-shit away away in another 10.” And then I was like, “fuck yeah, let’s fuck this shit up homey!” So, Ima, go, do, that, (There should probably be a period after that last word, “that”, but I’m extra special and I would just like to add this comment.) ((Plus this keyboard is all small and it feels like I’m on a typewriter.)) (((Double-plus good is **I’m Mary Poppins Bitch!** ))) ((((Also I like that I addedd those extra these “((((” “)))))” to each post.)))) (((((I’m awesome!))))) ((((((Ok, it’s now, like 1:32PM and I’ve just been fucking around, so, I’m going to go do the thing now.)))))) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/79 "2017-07-02T20:35:06Z")
**Drunky Smurf.** Just what it says on the tin, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/80 "2017-07-02T21:22:45Z")
I didn’t read the whole thread, and maybe this has been covered, but… Hey **Ambi** , ya know, the thing is, for a lot of us we grew up in a time when buildings weren’t accessible for wheelchairs and we never really saw people in wheelchairs out in public being independent. We really don’t know what to do or how to react. I don’t think we’re trying to be jerks, or be anything: we just don’t know. Of course we’re all learning, and let me tell you mon ami, I have already learned a lot from you here. People can be naïve and I’m certainly no exception. I don’t think I would ever stoop to a patronizing level with any disabled person, but damn, due to lack of experience it could possibly happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314.md?page=5)