# Why the fuck don't you listen? ("Good Samaritans" who force help on me) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 1, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314 "2017-07-01T23:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/101 "2017-07-04T16:19:10Z")
I think the issue is that there is the slightest hint of “don’t treat me like a 95-year old woman in a wheelchair. I deserve respect! (unlike those pathetic grannies)” in there. It’s _very, very slight_, but I noticed it to, and I admit that it bothered me. It comes across like one of the motivations for Ambivalid’s dedication to fitness is his contempt for the weak. That may well be something that we are reading into what he has said, but he might want to know that he created that impression in several people. But none of that undermines the excellent substance of the complaint. To go back to the microagression thing, there seems to be an unstated idea out there that a single inaccurate uncharitable thought towards a priviledged person is a worse injustice than having to absorb a thousand insults and intrusions. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/102 "2017-07-04T16:27:42Z")
95 year old women in wheelchairs _also_ deserve respect. They also have very different limitations and needs. Sure, the body-building and working out are at least in part compensations. So what? I don’t see it as an unhealthy response to a debilitating injury. The worst thing for a person in a wheelchair is to stop doing physical stuff. It’s leads to all sorts of problems and a shortened life span. I don’t find it puzzling that a relatively young man in a wheelchair does not want to be seen the same as an elderly woman in a wheelchair and it isn’t contempt. I don’t want to be treated as a 95 year old woman, either! In a wheelchair or not! I don’t want to be treated like a 20 year old woman, either. I wanted to be treated as the person I am. So does everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/103 "2017-07-04T16:34:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > 95 year old women in wheelchairs _also_ deserve respect. They also have very different limitations and needs. > > Sure, the body-building and working out are at least in part compensations. So what? I don’t see it as an unhealthy response to a debilitating injury. The worst thing for a person in a wheelchair is to stop doing physical stuff. It’s leads to all sorts of problems and a shortened life span. > > I don’t find it puzzling that a relatively young man in a wheelchair does not want to be seen the same as an elderly woman in a wheelchair and it isn’t contempt. I don’t want to be treated as a 95 year old woman, either! In a wheelchair or not! I don’t want to be treated like a 20 year old woman, either. I wanted to be treated as the person I am. So does everyone else. What, you don’t have an antidote of the time you were in a wheelchair and you were treated like shit? Quick, make one up. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/104 "2017-07-04T16:53:03Z")
Ah, the attack crowd comes out. Contrary to your accusations I do not “make shit up”. Plenty of other people have made shit up about me, but that’s the method the bullies employ. Exaggerate, distort, and outright lie. As I have never needed a wheelchair I have no such anecdotes. I’m actually happy with that set of circumstances. Unlike some other people, though, I make an effort to empathize with others and attempt to see the world from their perspective. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/105 "2017-07-04T17:22:17Z")
And some people apparently like to follow other people around the SDMB and make assumptions about them. Like, B tells lies and A has a rage issue. What an easy way to arrive at positions; no reading skills needed. Also, apparently, no one ever changes. Positions you may have held once for five minutes are yours for life. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/106 "2017-07-04T17:25:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Have you seen a picture of Ambivalid? Frankly, I’d ask for _his_ help if I needed to carry some groceries into the house. He’s buff. He’s got muscles. He’s someone you can look at and say “Whoa, that dude is strong”. > > He is NOT at all the same as an elderly woman in a wheelchair _ **unless the only thing you’re looking at is the wheelchair.** _ > > Which is, I suspect, the problem. > > They aren’t seeing him as a human being, they’re seeing him as a wheelchair. > > Picture a woman with ginormous boobs. All the time, people are looking at her boobs. She keeps saying “look at my _face_, talk to _me_” and they keep staring at her boobs. She says she’s earned two doctorate degrees and has personally saved the lives of 5,000 orphaned children in refugee camps but all people ask her is “what’s your bra size?” But I have a _mind_, she says, I’m so much more than just my boobs. They ask if if they’re real, if she works in the “adult entertainment industry” like Maxi Mounds and wow, she could make a good living from her boobs and why should she bother going to college she could just sell her body and live easy. But she didn’t choose to have ginormous boobs and she wants her mind challenged and be treated like more than just a blow-up sex toy. > > Picture Ambivalid, a man in a wheelchair. All the time, people are looking at his wheels. He keeps saying “look at my _face_, talk to _me_” and they keep staring at his wheels. He says he’s eating healthy and exercising and wins body-building championships and can bench-press a Buick but people just keep asking “can I open that jar for you? You poor delicate thing, don’t strain yourself.” But I am _strong_ he says, I am so much more than just the chair and legs that don’t work. They ask if he’s on disability and wow, he could just sit back and let the money roll in from all those welfare programs they hear about, why bother working so hard when he could just watch movies and play video games all day. But he didn’t choose to have a spinal cord injury, he wants to be a strong, healthy guy and treated like more than just a disability and do things other than sit in front of a TV all day. > > And, of course, if I’m wrong on that Ambivalid can say so (it’s not like we’re going to stop him!) but I’m saying all that not just based on his posts but also on living 30 years with someone who struggled to be seen as more than just a birth defect. It’s a problem that’s as common as dirt with anyone with a perceived disability. > > Saying everyone who uses a wheelchair is the same is like saying all black people are the same and have the exact same needs, wants, desires, tastes… basically, it’s a prejudicial stereotype. You may be the kindest, most generous person in the world 99% of the time, but if you say that then you’re not looking at the person, you’re looking at the chair and you need to re-evaluate your world view. You’re saying that the wheelchair is the most important thing about him, more important than anything else could possibly be and no matter what else he accomplishes in life it will never, ever matter more than the fact he’s in a wheelchair. Everything is eclipsed and shadowed by the wheelchair and needs to be seen with that filter. If he discovered the cure for cancer tomorrow his bio would still read > > Ambivalid the guy in the wheelchair who discovered a cure for cancer > > rather than > > Ambivalid the guy who discovered a cure for cancer who, by the way, needs an accessible stage on which to accept the Nobel Prize because he uses a wheelchair instead of walking. > > No, the buff bodybuilder in the wheelchair is NOT the same as the frail elderly person in the wheelchair. How ever could you think that, unless you’re not seeing them as individual human beings? _ **Thank you** _! Exactly. > [@MandaJo](#): > > I think the issue is that there is the slightest hint of “don’t treat me like a 95-year old woman in a wheelchair. I deserve respect! (unlike those pathetic grannies)” in there. It’s _very, very slight_, but I noticed it to, and I admit that it bothered me. It comes across like one of the motivations for Ambivalid’s dedication to fitness is his contempt for the weak. That may well be something that we are reading into what he has said, but he might want to know that he created that impression in several people. > > But none of that undermines the excellent substance of the complaint. To go back to the microagression thing, there seems to be an unstated idea out there that a single inaccurate uncharitable thought towards a priviledged person is a worse injustice than having to absorb a thousand insults and intrusions. If you’ve paid attention to the thread, I make it clear that I do not expect anyone to make any sort of distinction between me and _any other_ disabled person. Period. I have the utmost respect and empathy for elderly women, my point wasn’t to denigrate them at all. It was to make the point that it doesn’t matter _who_ is in the wheelchair. It could be a young, buff bodybuilder or it could be an elderly woman. To many in the public, we’re one and the same. I can’t change how one sees me, but, regardless of how they see me, they should still respect me just the same. Ditto for the elderly woman in the chair. Everyone deserves to be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/107 "2017-07-04T17:36:32Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I wish more people were like you in this regard. See, many people make zero distinction between myself and this elderly man with a heart condition who uses a scooter. They see us in pretty much the same way. Two people who are doing something that I am willing and offered to help with, and they stated they wanted no help, and would rather do it for themselves… I am still not making the distinction ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/108 "2017-07-04T17:41:44Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Ah, the attack crowd comes out. > > Contrary to your accusations I do not “make shit up”. Plenty of other people have made shit up about me, but that’s the method the bullies employ. Exaggerate, distort, and outright lie. > > As I have never needed a wheelchair I have no such anecdotes. I’m actually happy with that set of circumstances. Unlike some other people, though, I make an effort to empathize with others and attempt to see the world from their perspective. You rival Trump in fibs told per day. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/109 "2017-07-04T17:45:34Z")
The thing is, though, you ARE treating both those guys with respect. You _offer_ help, but when they say “thanks, but no thanks” you respect that and don’t _impose_ help. Sure, it can be hard to watch someone struggle, but sometimes it’s more important for them to struggle and try to work the problem than to succeed easily. If the last thing you can do for yourself is open a door for yourself, even if it’s hard, it might be hard to give up that victory for the day. You aren’t the problem. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/110 "2017-07-04T18:23:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Sure, it can be hard to watch someone struggle, but sometimes it’s more important for them to struggle and try to work the problem than to succeed easily. If the last thing you can do for yourself is open a door for yourself, even if it’s hard, it might be hard to give up that victory for the day. And all your neighbors/coworkers out of ear shot can watch you not even bother to take 5 seconds to help someone struggling with a door. That why so many people are uncomfortable around and avoid the disabled like lepers. The chances of a no-win situation are very high. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/111 "2017-07-04T18:45:49Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > And all your neighbors/coworkers out of ear shot can watch you not even bother to take 5 seconds to help someone struggling with a door. > > That why so many people are uncomfortable around and avoid the disabled like lepers. The chances of a no-win situation are very high. Along with teaching people to respect “no”, I think we should also teach people to not care so much “what neighbors/coworkers out of ear shot” think about us. When you’re doing stuff just because you’re afraid of what onlookers will think about you, then you’ve become a sheeple. We should resist this tendency, not embrace or excuse it. **Ambivalid** , to be fair, I have noticed the same thing that **Manda Jo** noticed. There IS a suggestion in your postings that people shouldn’t assume you’re helpless, but for other wheelchair users, it’s okay to make that assumption. I appreciate that’s not what you’re intending to communicate or what you consciously believe, but it is a sentiment that does come across in some of what you’ve written here. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/112 "2017-07-04T19:33:10Z")
I won’t quote it due to length, but that was an amazing post, **Broomstick**. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/113 "2017-07-04T19:40:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Along with teaching people to respect “no”, I think we should also teach people to not care so much “what neighbors/coworkers out of ear shot” think about us. When you’re doing stuff just because you’re afraid of what onlookers will think about you, then you’ve become a sheeple. We should resist this tendency, not embrace or excuse it. > > **Ambivalid** , to be fair, I have noticed the same thing that **Manda Jo** noticed. There IS a suggestion in your postings that people shouldn’t assume you’re helpless, but for other wheelchair users, it’s okay to make that assumption. I appreciate that’s not what you’re intending to communicate or what you consciously believe, but it is a sentiment that does come across in some of what you’ve written here. I garbled my communication then. While I personally make not like the fact that so many people see _any_ wheelchair user as helpless, I understand that I can’t control people’s perceptions. I am at peace with the fact that people make no distinction between me and more disabled wheelchair users. It may have been somewhat sidetracked but my original and only point I was trying to make in this thread was that once I make my feelings known, regardless of how “helpless” I may appear to someone, I should be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/114 "2017-07-04T19:45:15Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > And all your neighbors/coworkers out of ear shot can watch you not even bother to take 5 seconds to help someone struggling with a door. > > That why so many people are uncomfortable around and avoid the disabled like lepers. The chances of a no-win situation are very high. Another point I haven’t brought up yet is what an onlooker may perceive as “struggling” may in fact just be a different way of performing a task. My body is different than able-bodied people. My center of gravity is different as well the angle from which I perform a task. So to the casual eye, even though I can open a door as proficiently as most able-bodied people, I look different doing it. Some might see that as “struggling” even though I’m certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/115 "2017-07-04T19:53:42Z")
If I did inadvertently come off like I was saying it’s ok to see other chair users as helpless but not _me_, it was my effort to say that each individual wheelchair user (or disabled person in general)\* should\* be evaluated individually. I know this is only a pipe dream however, and I don’t think it’s how the world works. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/116 "2017-07-04T20:26:49Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > No, you misunderstand. I’m asking you, **if you were me** , how would you have responded to the situations in the OP. I’m not **Leaffan** (who has already responded anyway), but possibly a good response would be: > [@](#): > > Thank you for your second kind offer of assistance. I have already declined the first with gratitude. Please be aware that if you offer your assistance a third time our interaction will become unpleasant for both of us. That ought to cover all the bases. Except the quasi-B&E in your car. That one was destined to be unpleasant from the start. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/117 "2017-07-04T20:35:22Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > **monstro** ’s posts are typically pretty great. This one was helpful for me in reframing the issue. > > I think I was off-base about rage issues contributing here. Turns out my off-board sources suck. > I have managed to pick up the critical stuff for appropriate vs. inappropriate behavior, but I’ll admit I’m at a disadvantage for determining what is normal/healthy etc, including what is a normal level of assertiveness. I have a hard time standing up for myself. I’m not really into the ‘‘my pain is worse than yours’’ game, but I have a problem sometimes when people come to me about their family issues, not because I’m unsympathetic but because I have difficulty parsing what’s a normal kind of family problem and what’s unhealthy. I’ll tell you one thing, whenever people say ‘‘Every family is dysfunctional’’ I want to punch them in the face. My whole life it’s been painfully clear that my family is not like other families. I guess that’s a sort of micro-agression. It’s a great example of shit people say to make themselves feel better, not me. Like people who approach the grieving with bullshit platitudes. I don’t want your fucking platitudes, I want you to acknowledge that I’m hurting and that this sucks. > > Yeah, I think I get it now. It’s a universal thing, this need to be heard. BTW, how did the situation with that creepy neighbor work out? Did he back off or make your life so miserable that you had no choice but to move and change your name to **Spice Weasel**? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/118 "2017-07-04T20:37:10Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > If I did inadvertently come off like I was saying it’s ok to see other chair users as helpless but not _me_, it was my effort to say that each individual wheelchair user (or disabled person in general)\* should\* be evaluated individually. I know this is only a pipe dream however, and I don’t think it’s how the world works. Yep. You can’t evaluate everyone individually immediately. And sadly, it often takes a long, long fucking time. I’ll hold a door open for someone in a wheelchair, or a Pittsburg Steeler. While the situations you have described are over the top. Don’t always assume someone is just trying to put a feather in their cap by helping. My Mom is in a wheelchair, I know a bit about them. I had a good friend in high school that was in an electric scooter. Both my best friend and I had pick-up trucks and could help out. He went on ‘senior skip day’ with us to the mountains. Glad he could come. I’m tall, and am always getting things off the top shelf. It’s a natural thing to do. As I said, the situations you brought up are over the top, but try not to get pissed off at people for offering help. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/119 "2017-07-04T21:33:22Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yep. > > You can’t evaluate everyone individually immediately. And sadly, it often takes a long, long fucking time. > > I’ll hold a door open for someone in a wheelchair, or a Pittsburg Steeler. > > While the situations you have described are over the top. Don’t always assume someone is just trying to put a feather in their cap by helping. > > My Mom is in a wheelchair, I know a bit about them. I had a good friend in high school that was in an electric scooter. Both my best friend and I had pick-up trucks and could help out. He went on ‘senior skip day’ with us to the mountains. Glad he could come. > > I’m tall, and am always getting things off the top shelf. It’s a natural thing to do. > > As I said, the situations you brought up are over the top, but try not to get pissed off at people for offering help. Again, I don’t get pissed at people trying to help. I get pissed at people refusing to listen to my answer. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314/120 "2017-07-04T21:34:17Z")
For the eleventy-billionth time, he’s not pissed off because of the “offering”. He’s pissed off because people ignore him when he says “no thanks”. ETA: Ninja’d!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-fuck-dont-you-listen-good-samaritans-who-force-help-on-me/790314.md?page=7)