# Why the "hate" for Creed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972 "2006-05-01T17:32:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/41 "2006-05-02T01:50:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How is it a fair analogy if Matthews had nothing to do with it? The analogy of people that despise Stapp and those that despise Matthews. You can figure this one out. If not I’ll post a detailed comparison of how people that hate them just plain hate them for the same hypocrisy, though they’re hypocracy is shown in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/42 "2006-05-02T02:00:54Z")
[If people who dislike Scott haven’t seen this](http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Scott_Stapp_punked)… I remember reading it on the Gainesville LJ when it came out… good news… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/43 "2006-05-02T02:10:54Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > The analogy of people that despise Stapp and those that despise Matthews. You can figure this one out. If not I’ll post a detailed comparison of how people that hate them just plain hate them for the same hypocrisy, though they’re hypocracy is shown in different ways. Except there’s no hypocrisy on Matthews’ part. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/44 "2006-05-02T02:11:41Z")
Wasn’t Stapp the one that tried to start some shit with 311 and basically go t brushed off? I think it was in some hotel bar. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/45 "2006-05-02T02:13:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Except there’s no hypocrisy on Matthews’ part. OK, you’re a fan, I get it. I didn’t say the intensity of Stapp-haters and Matthews-haters was based on logic and deep insight. I was saying the hatred of the two are based on nothing more than the fact the haters just don’t like the guys. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/46 "2006-05-02T02:22:50Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > OK, you’re a fan, I get it. > > I didn’t say the intensity of Stapp-haters and Matthews-haters was based on logic and deep insight. > > I was saying the hatred of the two are based on nothing more than the fact the haters just don’t like the guys. I don’t understand the deep hatred some people feel for Dave Matthews; I think the Dave Matthews Band’s music is at least erasonably decent. As for Creed, the hatred comes from the fact that their music sucks donkey balls. If it was good music, I personally wouldn’t care what sort of preening nincompoop the lead singer was, since I’m rarely even aware of that sort of thing (I didn’t know anything about Scott Stapp’s public idiocy until this thread). But Creed’s music bites the wax tadpole. It’s crappy. It makes me sad in my heart when I hear it. And several years ago, the band was huge and you couldn’t escape from them. At least as far as I saw, while Dave Matthews Band was quite popular, it never had the ubiquity that Creed did. Creed and other similar bands are the reason I stopped listening to the radio entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/47 "2006-05-02T02:26:08Z")
Actually, I’m _not_ particularly a fan of Dave Matthews (I’m more of a hard rock/ classic rock kind of guy, plus Matthews’ vocal affectations annoy me). I just don’t think it’s fair to accuse him of hypocrisy for the septic tank incident. From what I read, he wasn’t on the bus at the time, had no knowledge of it and apologized profusely for it. It would be the equivalent of blaming Stapp for moral hypocrisy because his _roadies_ banged groupies. I get why people don’t like Matthews but he’s never made the kind of ass of himself that Stapp has. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/48 "2006-05-02T02:34:32Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t understand the deep hatred some people feel for Dave Matthews; I think the Dave Matthews Band’s music is at least erasonably decent. As for Creed, the hatred comes from the fact that their music sucks donkey balls. That’s the point. If I’m in a bar and a Creed song plays, I can tolerate/like it depending on my mood. I don’t make a comment on what a douche Stapp is. However, if a DMB song is played, I can’t stop hammering him until the song is over. As **Dio** mentioned, I think it’s more his yodeling voice that makes me want to punch him in the ear. (Can we say that here? It’s hyperbole, btw.) And no **Dio** , I’m not indicting him for the bus incident in Chicago. I was mention one event he was loosely tied to and using it as a shot at him personally. I realize you don’t do that with anyone, so I understand your incredulousness of me doing it. It was a joke. Have a Coke and a smile. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/49 "2006-05-02T03:28:13Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I got into music after Pearl Jam’s 15 minutes of fame. I grew up with Creed and Nickelback. The only bands I listen to that I can’t hear on the radio are symphonic metal bands. In fairness, I think Pearl Jam has had considerably longer than 15 minutes of fame. They’re still around, and still pretty popular and I listened to them in high school which was not a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/50 "2006-05-02T03:52:03Z")
Scott Stapp was on Bravo’s Celebrity Poker Showdown a while back, and… good god, what an idiot. He didn’t know which hands beat which. He didn’t know the cards dealt face up in the middle of the table were for everyone, not just him. He had to ask the dealer what “check” meant. Why did he agree to come on the show? Even Howie Mandel, whose appearance in a later season had him playing poker for the first time in his life and wearing latex gloves, ended up looking better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/51 "2006-05-02T04:00:45Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Scott Stapp was on Bravo’s Celebrity Poker Showdown a while back, and… good god, what an idiot. David Cross’s second CD includes a bonus track where he discusses his meeting with Stapp on that show. He’s had some rather strong words for Creed over the years - said their lyrics were written by middle school girls, “I would rather hear the death rattle of my only child than listen to that fucking shit,” that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/52 "2006-05-02T04:05:01Z")
> [@Sierra Indigo](#): > > A while ago there was a page being linked around, it may have even been linked through the dope at some stage. If I remember correctly, **Airman Doors** linked to it long ago. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/53 "2006-05-02T04:15:10Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > In fairness, I think Pearl Jam has had considerably longer than 15 minutes of fame. They’re still around, and still pretty popular and I listened to them in high school which was not a few years ago. Yeah, but after “10” they never really regained the following they enjoyed with the debut. “Vs.” was the next best they had commercially, but by then they were dealing with people crtitiquing the album based on what “10” was when it was released. IOW, “10” was groundbreaking in it’s own way. By the time “Vs” was released, the “genre” was becoming saturated with bands that were doing what Pearl Jam was doing. Riffing on a style that Nirvana revived. And Nirvana was doing nothing more than what the Sex Pistols and Ramones were doing 15 years prior. And that’s OK in my book. I like when a band works to evolve a punk/rock/semi-metal feel. When done right, it makes for an incredible album. AC/DC took the relatively “simple” guitar and bass hooks of Black Sabbath, mixed in some chord progression of Deep Purple, infused a blues sub-structure, and topped it off with Angus Young solos that a comparison would piss off Jimmy Page, but were played with the balls-out pleasure and pureness of fun for the sake of playing them. Add to that the all-out transparency of sex and partying Bon and Brian practiced that could make Robert Plant blush, and you have a classic band. (OK, enough love to AC/DC). As far as Nirvana is concerned, Dave Grohl was that band. Cobain was good for dark lyrics and angst, but if you want to talk music, Grohl was Nirvana. Period. Anyway, that’s my screed about Pearl Jam being relevant today. They aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incongnito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Guy\_Incongnito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incongnito)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/54 "2006-05-02T06:41:03Z")
> [@jali](#): > > Possible reasons I’ve considered: > > 1. Creed is to rock as Fiddy is to rap. No one has really cleared this up, so I’ll confirm that you’re off here. 50 Cent’s place in rap is perhaps best described by a [blog post I read once](http://sexy-results.blogspot.com/2005/07/school-spiritms.html), which was about matching rappers with their college football counterparts. For instance, Jurassic 5 is matched with Ole Miss because both are “Obsessed with tradition, good for a party, [and have an] exclusively white fan base. Also not taken particularly seriously by anybody.” 50 Cent found his match in Ohio State because “they get results, but they also get results in a way that makes them nearly impossible to like.” Creed is kind of the opposite to 50 Cent. While 50 Cent can make enjoyable music in a way that is antithetical to everything good and decent in the world (and I’m not just talking morally), Creed makes music that is completely disgusting, and they do it in a way that makes them impossible to like. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/55 "2006-05-02T11:25:30Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > As far as Nirvana is concerned, Dave Grohl was that band. Cobain was good for dark lyrics and angst, but if you want to talk music, Grohl was Nirvana. Period. Dude, you can now officially do no wrong in my opinion. 🙂 For what it’s worth, you’re not alone in your feelings about [Dave Matthews](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39670). I hate Creed because it was overly commercial and simplistic. Scott Stapp is a tool. I can’t think of a single reason to like Creed. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/56 "2006-05-02T13:14:10Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > IOW, “10” was groundbreaking in it’s own way. By the time “Vs” was released, the “genre” was becoming saturated with bands that were doing what Pearl Jam was doing. Riffing on a style that Nirvana revived. Pretty damned spot on post there, but I always get confused when I hear Pearl Jam and Nirvana mentioned in the same musical genre. Sure, they were grouped together with the whole Seattle thing that got called “Grunge”, but Pearl Jam wasn’t and isn’t a “punk” band, they play seventies style influenced arena rock, which is decidedly not punk, while Nirvana has it’s roots much deeper in the hardcore punk genre (with the sublime Dave Grohl even doing drumming duty in the later incarnation of the band [Scream](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scream_%28band%29). I don’t really see, stylistically, the two really meet. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/57 "2006-05-02T13:52:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Anyway, that’s my screed about Pearl Jam being relevant today. They aren’t. I don’t necessarilly disagree, but I think they had a bit more than 15 minutes of fame. Maybe an hour or so. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/58 "2006-05-02T17:27:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Seriously, you think these people sing emotionally? Like I said before, my opinion differs. I certainly think they _try_ to sound emotional but fail. > > Don’t get me wrong, I like cheesy emotional rock too, such as Dashboard. But Creed and their ilk doesn’t even fake it well.\* And the music also lacks testicles. Some music oddly enough manages to be more sensitive and harder _at the same time_ than Creed and their modern “wimp rock wannabe” counterparts. It’s sort of sad when you or your producers feel you’re too cool to actually _be_ sensitive in your singing and music, so you make a muddle\*\*of everything and don’t succeed in doing anything really well. > > \*(enough to please anyone, etc. etc…, for those at home playing the obscure reference game.) > > \*\* of Pudd? Granted, I haven’t listened to Creed since shortly after their last CD came out, and they can’t hold a candle to Nightwish, Epica and Apocalyptica when it comes to emotional music, but when your friends are in love with Panic! At the Disco, My Chemical Romance, Thrice and Yellowcard, I’ll take Creed, thank you very much. (wow, that was a bad run-on sentence) Since people always say Creed is just a ripped off Pearl Jam, suggest me some songs. I enjoyed With Arms Wide Open, Higher and Beautiful. I like slow songs, but not quite ballads. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972/59 "2006-05-02T18:16:54Z")
I rather liked Creed for a while there. _My Own Prison_, _Pity for a Dime_, _Beautiful_, and _Bullets_ are all excellent songs. It’s really a shame that _With Arms Wide Open_ got overplayed so badly, since it’s kind of a touching song about his son. The band has said before that they had very little creative control over the videos and they didn’t like them, particularly the video for _Higher_. I do my best to ignore anything I hear about any musician’s personal life, so I can’t really comment on whether he’s a jerk or not. Even if it somehow does slip through the filter, I rarely let it affect my enjoyment of the music. I seem to remember Howard Stern (or one of his copycats) talking about how Stapp challenged Fred Durst to a boxing match and didn’t show up. I have to admit, I’d sure like to punch Durst in the face, so I do kind of empathize with him on that one. You may hate Creed, but don’t be hatin’ on Mark Tremonti. He’s the shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-creed/354972.md?page=2)