# Why the hate for Elon Musk? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053 "2022-03-14T21:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/202 "2022-04-07T05:03:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This is hype. You’re not fighting ignorance, you’re spreading ignorance (albeit of a type that the population in this thread seems to be pretty resistant to). Just accept that Musk can be both a self-aggrandizing asshole and an important figure in 21st-century technology and capitalism, and let it go. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But Musk never even bothered to ask whether it could work or not, before going ahead and making a big deal about constructing it. He didn’t care whether it could work or not. He only cared about the publicity. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Either he didn’t even bother to ask them if it would work, or he ignored what they told him. Either way it was a publicity stunt. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > He very publicly announced he would help (with some harebrained scheme). When the people working on the problem said “thanks, but no thanks” he lashed out, slandering those actually doing stuff (and knowing what they were doing) then he hired a fucking PI to substantiate his slander. — is this the hill you’re picking? > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Anyone who did know the details of the situation could have told him immediately that his idea wouldn’t work, and why. Maybe they did, and he just ignored the inconvenient facts. > [@naita](#): > > In hindsight Elon Musk didn’t acquire basic information about what was needed. That random posters on an internet board also had opinions without sufficient information is irrelevant. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Because he didn’t bother to consult the experts. He didn’t bother to contact the divers on the site, or the Thai authorities, to ask what the situation actually was and what they needed. He didn’t even ask experienced cave divers in the US for their opinions. Apparently he only relied on media reports. And then I post a link to an e-mail exchange between Musk and the co-leader of the rescue team. Fighting ignorance? Yes. Does it make any difference? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/203 "2022-04-08T01:15:46Z")
> [@nate](#): > > And then I post a link to an e-mail exchange between Musk and the co-leader of the rescue team. Which, I repeat again, shows zero evidence for any communication about detailed technical specifications of the sort that would be needed to construct a vessel that would actually be useful in this situation. Which, I repeat again, is AFAICT the particular type of lack of communication that people are criticizing Musk for in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/204 "2022-04-08T02:45:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Which, I repeat again, shows zero evidence for any communication about detailed technical specifications of the sort that would be needed to construct a vessel that would actually be useful in this situation. > > Which, I repeat again, is AFAICT the particular type of lack of communication that people are criticizing Musk for in this situation. Re-read the quotes I posted. You’re inventing motivations that clearly aren’t evident in those posts. Anyway, it’s beyond bizarre to think that a team full of SpaceX engineers would be so dumb as to not research the requirements for the sub to be successful, especially when the motivating factor is urgency to save kids lives. Again, the perplexing thing to me is “Elon bad, Elon called asshole ‘pedo-guy’, therefore Elon’s idea for a solution to save the kids is now bad”. It just doesn’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/205 "2022-04-08T02:54:44Z")
> [@nate](#): > > when the motivating factor is urgency to save kids lives. Well that’s the thing isn’t it. Musk’s motivation had nothing to do with saving any lives. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/206 "2022-04-08T03:00:14Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Anyway, it’s beyond bizarre to think that a team full of SpaceX engineers would be so dumb as to not research the requirements for the sub to be successful Obviously the engineers did not have the requisite information for the sub to be successful, because they did not produce a successful sub. Nobody is calling the engineers “dumb”, just pointing out that it’s a dumb approach to insert yourself into a time-critical crisis situation as a provider of crisis-resolving technology when you don’t have adequate technical specs. > [@nate](#): > > Again, the perplexing thing to me is “Elon bad, Elon called asshole ‘pedo-guy’, therefore Elon’s idea for a solution to save the kids is now bad”. Well, if you’re going to mistake strawmen for reality then it’s likely you’re going to be perplexed. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/207 "2022-04-08T05:02:50Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Anyway, it’s beyond bizarre to think that a team full of SpaceX engineers would be so dumb as to not research the requirements for the sub to be successful, Yet the sub was too large to fit through the passageways, therefore they did not have the requirements necessary to be successful. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/208 "2022-04-08T05:58:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Obviously the engineers did not have the requisite information for the sub to be successful, because they did not produce a successful sub. > > Nobody is calling the engineers “dumb”, just pointing out that it’s a dumb approach to insert yourself into a time-critical crisis situation as a provider of crisis-resolving technology when you don’t have adequate technical specs. Don’t you realize you’re just making all this up in your head? You have no idea if a sub would work or not. You have no clue if they had “technical specs” (and what does that even mean? you think these divers went down with measuring tapes?) You are filling in unknowns with your anti-Musk bias combined with ex post facto thoughts about the crisis. But the point really isn’t if the sub would work or not, it’s the bizarreness of getting hate for attempting to solve a urgent crisis. That’s fucked up. “Ha ha, you suck! Your work towards trying to save these kids lives wasn’t used and probably wouldn’t have worked! Suck it! Stick the sub up your ass!”. What the hell kind of response is that? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/209 "2022-04-08T06:07:30Z")
> [@nate](#): > > You have no idea if a sub would work or not. The sub his lackeys designed would not have fit through the tunnels. That is an observable fact. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/210 "2022-04-08T06:55:32Z")
> [@nate](#): > > you think these divers went down with measuring tapes? They didn’t _need_ to use measuring tapes. They already knew that it was narrow enough to necessitate removing their air tanks. Much narrower than the SpaceX rigid sub. And in any case the caves had been previously surveyed _multiple times_ - the dimensions of the passages were already matters of record. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/211 "2022-04-08T07:31:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The sub his lackeys designed would not have fit through the tunnels. > > That is an observable fact. How do you know this? …and again, this really isn’t the point but I’m curious how anyone knows for a certain fact his sub would not work. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/212 "2022-04-08T07:34:05Z")
Asked and answered. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/213 "2022-04-08T07:35:52Z")
Oh, well, that puts that baby to rest. I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/214 "2022-04-08T07:41:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And in any case the caves had been previously surveyed _multiple times_ - the dimensions of the passages were already matters of record. Ahh yes, of course everyone knows the dimensions of the caves are known… But the SpaceX engineers must be too dumb to think of that and I’m sure they just took a wild guess at what would fit. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/215 "2022-04-08T07:41:57Z")
In your citation of Musk engaging with the rescue lead on his idea, I do not see a rescue professional engaging in a brainstorming session on a practical suggestion. I see a very busy man who is contacted out of the blue by a rando celebrity CEO, and instead of wasting time on nonsense, he blows him off with a “sure, whatever, knock yourself out,” so he can get back to the much more urgent work of the actual rescue. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/216 "2022-04-08T08:00:05Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Ahh yes, of course everyone knows the dimensions of the caves are known Anyone who bothered to read up about it did, yes. There is literally a book. Do you think Google Books didn’t work in 2018? > **[Thailand's Longest & Deepest Caves](https://books.google.co.za/books?id=b9e4CgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Thailand%27s%2BLongest%2Band%2BDeepest%2BCaves:%2BA%2BCaving%2BGuide&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Thailand's%20Longest%20and%20Deepest%20Caves%3A%20A%20Caving%20Guide&f=false)** > > This is a guide to the twenty longest and twenty deepest caves in Thailand. For each cave full location and access information, passage descriptions and surveys are provided. Let me repeat this in case you’re not seeing the same text I am: **For each cave** full location and access information, **passage descriptions and surveys are provided**. > [@nate](#): > > But the SpaceX engineers must be too dumb to think of that If you say so. “Too arrogant” would be my interpretation, but I guess arrogance is a _kind_ of stupidity. > [@nate](#): > > I’m sure they just took a wild guess at what would fit. That does seem to be the case, yes. You get it! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/217 "2022-04-08T09:21:43Z")
I’m just gonna leave this here; [https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/170731526\_3966145770091243\_1675571985442505119\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=101&ccb=1-5&\_nc\_sid=730e14&\_nc\_ohc=eH-Bg9V3U-oAX9pvIU7&\_nc\_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00\_AT\_MGsNcdhO4v0YN3U-4bTaA6vI5LWhOc6m3uANEzgpgEA&oe=6274C1CA](https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/170731526_3966145770091243_1675571985442505119_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=eH-Bg9V3U-oAX9pvIU7&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_MGsNcdhO4v0YN3U-4bTaA6vI5LWhOc6m3uANEzgpgEA&oe=6274C1CA) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/218 "2022-04-08T14:47:31Z")
I’ve never actually seen a fan-boy at work before. Boy howdy. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/219 "2022-04-08T15:36:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@nate](#): > > > > But the SpaceX engineers must be too dumb to think of that > > If you say so. “Too arrogant” would be my interpretation, but I guess arrogance is a _kind_ of stupidity. > > > [@nate](#): > > > > I’m sure they just took a wild guess at what would fit. > > That does seem to be the case, yes. You get it! Oh I love this! SPACEX ENGINEER A: “Alright guys, time to get to work. Elon wants us to think of a solution to get these kids out. We came up with a quick solution using the same techniques as we build our 1st stages from to build some type of vessel. First we need to get some dimensions that’ll wo…” SPACEX ENGINEER B: “Nonsense! Don’t you know who we are?! We’re SpaceX engineers! We just proved to the world how badass we are. Remember a few months ago when we had 2 simultaneous RTLS touchdowns? Remember us launching Elon’s roadster to the tune of Life on Mars?! How do you think we managed that? We guessed! That’s the same thing we’ll do here! We’ll just make up something that feels right!” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/220 "2022-04-08T15:45:58Z")
And _your_ explanation for their stupid couldn’t-turn-the-first-tight-corner “design” (well, if sticking a nose cone and a piece of acrylic on either end of the first spare piece of booster tube you find can be called a “design”) is…? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/221 "2022-04-08T17:38:25Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > In your citation of Musk engaging with the rescue lead on his idea, I do not see a rescue professional engaging in a brainstorming session on a practical suggestion. I see a very busy man who is contacted out of the blue by a rando celebrity CEO, and instead of wasting time on nonsense, he blows him off with a “sure, whatever, knock yourself out,” so he can get back to the much more urgent work of the actual rescue. I’ll type the correspondence here so others can judge as well: MUSK: > Understandable. > > Right now, I have one the world’s best engineering teams who normally design spaceships and > spacesuits working on this thing 24 hours a day. We are trying to get it right in a very short period of > time. > > If it isn’t needed or won’t help, that would be great to know. Otherwise, it would be very helpful to have as much design direction as possible. STANTON: > It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. > If the rain holds out it may well be used. MUSK: > Sounds good, will continue. > > Parts are being assembled and will undergo testing in water in a few hours. Will send pics and video. However, don’t want to put it on a plane if you think there are important changes needed. Operating principle is same as spacecraft design - no loss of life even with two failures. STANTON: > We’re worried about the smallest lad please keep working on the capsule details [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053.md?page=12)