# Why the hate for Everybody Loves Raymond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696 "2011-05-21T16:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/21 "2011-05-21T20:12:04Z")
Brad Garrett was OK. Otherwise it pretty much sucked: unlikable characters and stock sitcom situations (and I like sitcoms, and am generally quite tolerant of sitcom cliches). I did not need the SDMB to tell me it sucked. I worked it out for myself. I do not understand how the show managed to run for so long. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/22 "2011-05-21T20:18:25Z")
I don’t think it’s as much about the show (which is blah) as it is the changes in TV in the past few decades. You hear a lot of critical opinion that the single camera/no laugh track sitcom is the only good type of sitcom. (These are often the same critics that claim procedural shows are inherently inferior to serialized dramas.) Plus in the wake of “Seinfeld” sitcoms are increasingly having “inside” senses of humor. “Raymond” as a three camera/laugh track sitcom based on the decades old “family guy with meddling wife and parents” became the symbol for the old outdated sitcoms, especially since it was so popular. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lovely_Margo_Lane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/23 "2011-05-21T20:20:13Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever bashed it on this board, but I find it overwhelmingly unpleasant. I’ve watched perhaps 2 episodes and a few dozen scenes here and there, and it just seems like everyone in the family hates each other and goes out of their way to make the rest miserable. It’s my idea of hell, plus the characters are just grating, not actually funny. Now that I’ve written it out, I see I could be describing Married With Children, but I actually like that show. It actually went all the way with that premise, whereas Raymond seems to be suggesting that this is a pretty normal family and under it all they love each other. Not buying it. I once bit my tongue just in time to avoid voicing the above opinion to a friend who got excited about an episode when she was hanging out watching tv at my house. The reason I’m glad I bit my tongue is that she went on to say “This is my favorite show! It reminds me so much of my family!” I’ve met her mom, and it makes sense. [shudder] ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/24 "2011-05-21T20:24:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s pretty much my take on it (except I would have spelled “woe is me” right 🙂 ). D’oh! :smack: > [@](#): > > Deborah and Marie made the show unwatchable for me. Is there a parody on Youtube where Ray grows a pair of balls and shuts both of them up? I’d watch that. No idea. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/25 "2011-05-21T20:29:54Z")
I think a lot of the hate for Everybody Loves Raymond isn’t so much really directed at the show so much as at the genre. I dislike formulaic sitcoms, and Everybody Loves Raymond is pretty much the definition of formulaic sitcom. It’s not the worst offender, but it’s one of the most popular ones so it takes the brunt. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/26 "2011-05-21T20:35:07Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > I think a lot of the hate for Everybody Loves Raymond isn’t so much really directed at the show so much as at the genre. I dislike formulaic sitcoms, and Everybody Loves Raymond is pretty much the definition of formulaic sitcom. > > It’s not the worst offender, but it’s one of the most popular ones so it takes the brunt. I like most formulaic sitcoms. They provide a great opportunity to turn off the brain and relax. I hated ELR (and certainly not because it was “challenging” or anything like that!). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/27 "2011-05-21T20:52:38Z")
My late mother used to watch the show (give her a break, she was in her 90s), and I often watched it with her, eventually becoming a fan myself. It’s definitely a show that grows on you, the more you get to know the characters . . . yes, even Marie. And they were not as two-dimensional as they at first appeared. Plus, they had a really great supporting cast over the years. It’s interesting that the actors who went on to other shows became totally unwatchable in their new roles. Especially Romano and Heaton. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/28 "2011-05-21T20:55:40Z")
I loved it, and watch reruns once in a while. Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle resemble so many parents/in-laws that I know that I always enjoyed seeing them. And Patricia Heaton’s parents were funny in their way, too. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/29 "2011-05-21T21:15:02Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > My late mother used to watch the show (give her a break, she was in her 90s), and I often watched it with her, eventually becoming a fan myself. It’s definitely a show that grows on you, the more you get to know the characters . . . yes, even Marie. And they were not as two-dimensional as they at first appeared. Plus, they had a really great supporting cast over the years. > > It’s interesting that the actors who went on to other shows became totally unwatchable in their new roles. Especially Romano and Heaton. My mother loved the show, too, mainly because it featured an older woman. She liked seeing women close to her age getting good parts! I liked the episode where it was revealed that Marie and Frank were “doing the deed” at least once a day. The shock on Ray and Deborah’s faces was the classic adult child realizing his parents still do it…and are apparently having more fun with it than he was! And it sure put Marie in a different light. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/30 "2011-05-21T21:28:32Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > I liked the episode where it was revealed that Marie and Frank were “doing the deed” at least once a day. The shock on Ray and Deborah’s faces was the classic adult child realizing his parents still do it…and are apparently having more fun with it than he was! And it sure put Marie in a different light. Yeah, she’s this bad when she’s getting it once a day. Imagine how bad she’d be if you added sexual frustration to the mix. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/31 "2011-05-21T21:33:59Z")
As others have intimated, the titular character is a complete and total putz. I prefer to watch shows which have people I identify with, not those which are populated with absolute tools. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/32 "2011-05-21T21:37:11Z")
I don’t hate it, but I _do_ hate the title and as a result never watched a minute of it. I’m funny that way. Something about a title rubs me the wrong way, and I won’t watch the show out of some misguided “principle.” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/33 "2011-05-21T21:44:03Z")
I love the show but can see why people would hate it. The characters are not the most endearing of people. In fact, even the characters I like have off-putting character flaws. A lot of people can’t watch a TV show, much less a comedy, if the main characters aren’t loveable. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/34 "2011-05-21T21:50:46Z")
I hated it for the simple reason that its title suggested to me that I was some kind of freak for not loving it. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/35 "2011-05-21T22:29:06Z")
So, George Costanza’s parents versus Ray Romano’s parents: Who wins? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/36 "2011-05-21T22:32:57Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So, George Costanza’s parents versus Ray Romano’s parents: Who wins? No one. We all lose. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/37 "2011-05-21T22:41:43Z")
I wish all those who hate it could/would view the episode where Marie takes an art class and her _huge_ sculpture, which she proudly displays in the living room, resembles a vulva. That there is comedy gold, Jerry! mmm ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/38 "2011-05-21T22:45:25Z")
Yeah, I saw it. Still doesn’t make up for all of the other episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/39 "2011-05-21T23:08:05Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t hate it, but I _do_ hate the title and as a result never watched a minute of it. I’m funny that way. Something about a title rubs me the wrong way, and I won’t watch the show out of some misguided “principle.” I’ve never watched “The Biggest Loser” for exactly this reason. For a similarly odd principle, I’ve never watched any of the “Survivor” programs. I am offended by the very concept of survivors basically killing each other off rather than mutually cooperating to “survive”. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/40 "2011-05-21T23:14:31Z")
This show, like others became a victim of its success. Look at the early episodes and you will see the more popular it got the worse it became. I was recently watching _Newhart_ reruns and that show was so funny the first two years, then slowly it became less real and just stupid. The last season, save the final episode is unwatchable. This is because the characters stop being human and become cliches and one-dimensional. On “Raymond” the wife went from being a strong woman to a total shrew. Ray was a good looking man, who made money, for her to treat him like that, he’d have been out the door. The fact that Debra was from a background with money and privilege was never really addressed. Without that fact, being honed in on you, she is so annoying. But if yo realize that, you understand why she can be like she is. Good comedy can be done, provided there are reasons for it. Characters need to grow and progress, but too often when writers find something funny, they just freeze it. This works for the current time but fails to hold up in reruns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696.md?page=3)