# Why the hate for Everybody Loves Raymond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696 "2011-05-21T16:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/41 "2011-05-21T23:29:47Z")
I didn’t watch it in its first run, but seeing it in reruns, it’s okay. I usually only watch it if I’m in the kitchen getting a late night snack or something and it happens to be on. Ranges from meh to pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/42 "2011-05-21T23:44:07Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > 1. Ray was lazy, whiny, and inconsiderate. > 2. I did not it funny that Ray was scared of Deborah. She seemed borderline abusive. Hell, in one episode she punched ray in the nuts to shut him up. And he had to ask her permission for things like spending time with his brother. > 3. Robert’s constant “Whoa is me” didn’t bother me too much; Although it wore a little thin. > 4. Ray’s parents were horrible. Especially Marie. Passive-aggressive, using secrets to blackmail family members. And they could do whatever they want, but when one of their kids or an in-laws stands up to them it’s, “You don’t turn against the family.” Frank and Marie bickering didn’t bother me that much for some reason. > > The ONLY character I liked on the show was Amy. These things are what make it so great! If you don’t approach it as a show about a quirky family, but rather as a dark comedy about borderline sociopaths forced to spend lots of time in one another’s presence, it becomes a lot more enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/43 "2011-05-21T23:50:17Z")
Sorry, but like I said, I think I have an irrational hate for the show. I mean seriously, I got all worked up just writing that post. And don’t get me started on Malcolm in the Middle :mad: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/44 "2011-05-22T00:17:19Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > So, why do you hate it? Or, is anyone brave enough to agree with me? > mmm Too much sanitizing and self-censorship in order to make a easy to swallow tv product, which it seems did not come from the producers alone but from the writers also. The laugh track was hideous too, as they all are. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/45 "2011-05-22T00:18:13Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Sorry, but like I said, I think I have an irrational hate for the show. I mean seriously, I got all worked up just writing that post. > > And don’t get me started on Malcolm in the Middle :mad: > > 😃 The difference between Ray and Malcolm is that in Malcolm the parents had issues, but when all the shit started flying they would pull back for a moment and show that the parents really did love each other. They did the same thing for the kids vs. parents dynamic, where there would be constant infighting but then when an outside threat would appear the family would pull together. In Ray there was none of that, there was no evidence of love between the characters. There wasn’t hatred just an indifference to each other. It was depressing that that was portrayed as normal. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/46 "2011-05-22T00:23:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s the name. _Everybody Loves Raymond_, huh? Well, not me! You can’t tell me what to do! You’re not the boss of me! You’re jesting,of course, but the title is meant sarcastically. It was clearer in the first season when they had Robert saying at at the end of hte credits. I am not a huge fan of the show, but I enjoy the occasional episode, if only for Heaton’s comeliness. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/47 "2011-05-22T02:05:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ve never watched “The Biggest Loser” for exactly this reason. > > For a similarly odd principle, I’ve never watched any of the “Survivor” programs. I am offended by the very concept of survivors basically killing each other off rather than mutually cooperating to “survive”. I was just about to criticize you all for such silliness when I realized that this is the exact reason I have not seen a single episode of ‘Cougar Town’. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/48 "2011-05-22T02:18:00Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Slightly off-topic, but I never understood the popularity of Home Improvement…tried several times to watch (even had a friend who guest starred on the show) but never found it to be even slightly funny. Thus, I guess I can understand the hate for Raymond - if you don’t get it, you don’t find it funny. Interesting. Home Improvement is, at least in my opinion, easily one of the best sitcoms created. It’s right up there with Cheers. And for what it’s worth, I liked ELR well enough. Brad Garrett and Peter Boyle were fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/49 "2011-05-22T03:31:31Z")
My roommate watches this all the time, but I’ve never been able to sit through an episode. Could somebody explain this hand lotion thing you’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/50 "2011-05-22T03:38:53Z")
The show was fairly funny. Not great or anything. Deborah was an amazing bitch all the time though. I alwys thought Deborah was one of the hottest TV moms looks wise out there up until she got real skinny. I think I’m in the minority here though. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/51 "2011-05-22T04:17:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It was clearer in the first season when they had Robert saying at at the end of hte credits. What did Robert say at the end of the credits? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/52 "2011-05-22T04:21:38Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I alwys thought Deborah was one of the hottest TV moms looks wise out there up until she got real skinny. I think I’m in the minority here though. I agree with this. Heaton was a very attractive person. The same time she got skinny was the same time she got a boob job. She did a ton of interviews after that, and pulled down a couple made-for-TV movies that allowed her to break out of the housewife role (and show off her new tits). In my view, she got really cocky about it. Yeah - new boobs are confidence boosts. But she really let them go to her head. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/53 "2011-05-22T04:30:20Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What did Robert say at the end of the credits? He would title drop in a deadpan sorta way. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/54 "2011-05-22T04:59:49Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > He would title drop in a deadpan sorta way. Yeah… you could hear the eyeroll in his voice. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/55 "2011-05-22T05:50:38Z")
I get why people hate the later seasons, because by then everyone has become a caricature of their former roles. But early on, the love between Ray and Debra is shown a lot better, and Marie wasn’t nearly as grating. They have a few episodes that go back in time and show Deb and Ray meeting for the first time, how they fell in love, etc. And there’s a beautiful one where Deb is pregnant and finds out she’s having the twins, the way Ray acts when she tells him is super sweet. Eh, and I guess I even like the newer ones if they have Amy and her family involved. That shit is comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/56 "2011-05-22T06:12:36Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yeah - new boobs are confidence boosts. **But she really let them go to her head**. She should sue her plastic surgeon. He clearly didn’t understand anatomy. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/57 "2011-05-22T06:19:43Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > … > > But you gotta love Peter Boyle. > > mmm Yes! I never understood how everyone else on the show got Emmys and he didn’t. I think it’s because he was a much better actor than the rest and a lot more subtle about it. And the people who decided who wins those things are idiots. I pretty much only watched it in reruns when there was nothing else and it did get grating after a while but there were some good episodes. For example there was an episode where Debra disses Frank. I think there was a power failure or something and Frank dances with everyone. Debra makes a thoughtless comment along the lines that she didn’t think he could be that classy. He was genuinely hurt. He was so good in that episode and in my mind it solidified Debra as a colossal bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/58 "2011-05-22T07:02:51Z")
I thought their family life was a little too soft. Yeah, they’d get snarky with each other, but you never got the sense that Ray would be out of a job and his family on the street. I only watched this show a few times and have no idea if these topics were ever actually broached. But the few times I saw it, I thought Ray was awfully whiny for a guy with a fun, secure piece-of-cake job and a smokin’ looking wife. If the characters on **Roseanne** ever went on a crime spree, Ray’s family would be easy pickin’s. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/59 "2011-05-22T07:10:02Z")
Oh, and by the way, the title refers to the character, not the show. Ray was his parents’ favorite, the beloved son, with a great job and a great family of his own. Robert was doomed to be second fiddle. They’re not saying everyone loves the show, only that many of the characters love Ray. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/60 "2011-05-22T07:21:13Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > My roommate watches this all the time, but I’ve never been able to sit through an episode. > > Could somebody explain this hand lotion thing you’re talking about? It wasn’t a big deal, and it really didn’t happen all that often. Deborah and Raymond would be getting ready to go to bed and Deborah would be sitting there lotioning up her hands in a compulsive and aggressive manner that would drive me, if she were my wife, out of my everloving skull. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > Yes! I never understood how everyone else on the show got Emmys and he didn’t. I think it’s because he was a much better actor than the rest and a lot more subtle about it. And the people who decided who wins those things are idiots. > > I pretty much only watched it in reruns when there was nothing else and it did get grating after a while but there were some good episodes. For example there was an episode where Debra disses Frank. I think there was a power failure or something and Frank dances with everyone. Debra makes a thoughtless comment along the lines that she didn’t think he could be that classy. He was genuinely hurt. He was so good in that episode and in my mind it solidified Debra as a colossal bitch. I had forgotten about that episode and how outstanding Boyle was in it. mmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696.md?page=4)