# Why the hate for Everybody Loves Raymond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696 "2011-05-21T16:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/61 "2011-05-22T11:06:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t hate it. I just got bored. The episodes rarely seemed to be about anything, or at least about anything I remember. Every other sitcom I can think of had something special about it. You need a quirk. A show about nothing? No, can’t think of any other sitcoms like that. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/62 "2011-05-22T11:11:31Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > A show about nothing? No, can’t think of any other sitcoms like that. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. mmm ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/63 "2011-05-22T19:38:39Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > It’s interesting that the actors who went on to other shows became totally unwatchable in their new roles. Especially Romano and Heaton. I actually like **The Middle** with Heaton - however, I believe I read that Heaton is some super right-wing Republican fanatic, but don’t care - her new show is pretty good - got picked up for another season as well. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/64 "2011-05-22T20:17:35Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I had forgotten about that episode and how outstanding Boyle was in it. I think Boyle’s greatest episode is when he was in the hospital after falling through the steps . . . an accident precipitated by a cock-and-bull story fabricated by Ray and Debra. He was on a painkiller IV, and became very mellow and sweet. It was a nice departure from his usual demeanor. (Marie wanted to get some of the painkiller “for the house.”) And the one scene that epitomized Doris Robert’s acting skills was when she barged into Ray’s house with her friends, to hear the kids’ knock-knock jokes, and Debra wouldn’t let them. Marie’s reaction was priceless . . . barely moving, expressing everything you knew she was feeling, with just a few subtle facial/neck movements. Few actors could have pulled that off. > [@DMark](#): > > I actually like **The Middle** with Heaton - however, I believe I read that Heaton is some super right-wing Republican fanatic, but don’t care - her new show is pretty good - got picked up for another season as well. I don’t think she’s quite a “super right-wing Republican fanatic,” but just a moderate pro-life Conservative. \*The Middle \*is an ok show, but I watch it to see the youngest kid, “Brick,” played by Atticus Shaffer. I love that kid, and wouldn’t watch the show without him. And Romano’s new show, \*Men of a Certain Age, \* is a bore. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/65 "2011-05-22T20:30:59Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I wish all those who hate it could/would view the episode where Marie takes an art class and her _huge_ sculpture, which she proudly displays in the living room, resembles a vulva. > > That there is comedy gold, Jerry! > mmm Came to post about that one. That was priceless. “I’m a lesbian!” ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/66 "2011-05-22T22:50:40Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > These things are what make it so great! If you don’t approach it as a show about a quirky family, but rather **as a dark comedy about borderline sociopaths forced to spend lots of time in one another’s presence** , it becomes a lot more enjoyable. I think a perfect example of this is the episode from the first season or two where the cable goes out and the entire family decides to sit down and play a game of “Scruples”. You get a really good glimpse into what a f—ed up family they are in that episode, and it’s freakin’ hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/67 "2011-05-22T23:57:36Z")
Said it before, will say it again: I LOVE this show and will sit happily and watch an all day marathon. (I get why people don’t like the parents, I know there are people like that IRL who are not funny at all.) I like that the kids are hardly seen and when you do see them, they’re sitting quietly coloring or watching TV and not interrupting every goddam 10 seconds like real kids. I laugh out loud. I love the father and the brother. I love Amy, and Debra’s pretentious parents are a piece of work. I think ELR is better than 90% of whatever crap is currently on. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/68 "2011-05-23T00:05:11Z")
I started liking it more when I realised it wasn’t a sitcom. It’s a Beckettian nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/69 "2011-05-23T19:18:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You’re jesting,of course, but the title is meant sarcastically. It was clearer in the first season when they had Robert saying at at the end of hte credits. > > I am not a huge fan of the show, but I enjoy the occasional episode, if only for Heaton’s comeliness. That’s interesting, the name definitely turned me off too. But from watching snippets I discovered I don’t like any of the characters, except maybe Raymonds father. But even he is a one-note joke. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/70 "2011-05-24T00:17:09Z")
My favorite thing on the show was some bit they did about the parents being horrified by being given a “Fruit of the Month” gift. It just keeps coming! ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/71 "2011-05-24T03:09:41Z")
I never could stand it because I nearly married a guy like him and would have had those inlaws. And in real life, it is Not Funny! At least I found out about his parents in time. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/72 "2011-05-24T04:41:25Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > That’s interesting, the name definitely turned me off too. > > But from watching snippets I discovered I don’t like any of the characters, except maybe Raymonds father. But even he is a one-note joke. But every so often you’d get a glimpse of more. Like the dancing episode I mentioned. Or there was another one where it turned out he had a side job as a lounge singer. You kind of got the feeling that being married to Marie and having a couple whiny kids sort of took the wind out of him and he was once a really cool guy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/73 "2011-05-31T03:16:15Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I was just about to criticize you all for such silliness when I realized that this is the exact reason I have not seen a single episode of ‘Cougar Town’. So you will watch it when they change the name? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/74 "2011-05-31T05:56:55Z")
It’s a good show. One of the main attractions IS the inevitable trainwreck. And for my money, [this moment](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CSECwl-gaQ) ranks up there with the funniest comedy moments ever, including “Yes you did, you invaded Poland!” It’s set up, blocked and filmed PERFECTLY! You have Ray’s and Robert’s horrified reaction, Amy’s “uh-oh” expression, then the s-l-o-w reveal of Marie. Comedy gold! What’s with the objections to the lotion thing? Don’t a lot of women actually do that? > [@Munch](#): > > Patricia Heaton is a terrible actress, and her character was entirely unlikeable. And after Heaton got a boob job, she somehow got even more annoying. The plot was also roughly the exact same script every week. It was a terrible, terrible show. Nonsense. She may not be a great actress (I did think she was awful in the TV version of “The Goodbye Girl”) but she executed Debra quite well. Typecasting? Maybe. I think Stanislavsky said “The greatest casting IS typecasting.” As for the same scripts, well, the premise is that Ray is a spoiled, self-centered jackass, so everything will be set up around that. Debra is perfectly justified in her reactions. Of course, I’m sure her religious convictions have absolutely nothing to do with your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/75 "2011-05-31T08:30:47Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > He would title drop in a deadpan sorta way. Everybody Loves Raymond got its title from a comment that Romano’s older brother, Richard (a sergeant with the N.Y.P.D. in real life) said. It was something like this, “When Ray goes to work, people laugh at him. When I go to work, people shoot at me. Everybody loves Raymond.” ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/76 "2011-06-29T02:43:45Z")
I just ran across one of my favorite clips - watch for the part involving Ray, Debra, and the refrigerator. [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCXy9Y4WqhI) mmm ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/77 "2011-07-04T10:26:47Z")
I agree with the people saying they don’t _hate_ the show, but aren’t especially fond of it either- it really does seem to be the textbook example of “Formulaic Generic Family Sitcom”. As for _The Middle_, it bothers me that I like it so much, since even though it initially seems to be a rip-off of _Malcolm In The Middle_, I did rather enjoy MITM and it’s not on anymore, and _The Middle_ is doing a credible job of filling the niche. But I still can’t shake the feeling that keeps saying “This looks a lot like a re-cast _Malcolm In The Middle_” when I’m watching it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffer\_Spice\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Biffer\_Spice\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffer_Spice_1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/78 "2011-07-04T12:46:06Z")
i was in love with patricia heaton, and it had some great jokes in it. i still laugh about “dead ray”. it just struck me as so true. when they were sitting around writing their wills, ray wanted it in his will that if he died first, she wouldn’t be allowed to marry anyone else called ray. because otherwise, to differentiate between which ray people were talking about, he’d be “dead ray”. 😃 so very true… ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/79 "2011-07-04T14:57:45Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > As for the same scripts, well, the premise is that Ray is a spoiled, self-centered jackass Well, yes. That’s precisely the problem a lot of people have with it. I just don’t find whiny, lazy, mother-ridden man-children amusing IRL, much less want to watch them on my tv screen. Ditto unpleasant old people who snipe at each other incessantly. Is it really that difficult to see why people would hate this show? ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696/80 "2011-07-04T16:21:47Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Slightly off-topic, but I never understood the popularity of Home Improvement…tried several times to watch (even had a friend who guest starred on the show) but never found it to be even slightly funny. I never really cared about Everybody Loves Raymond, but I never gave it a chance either. As a kid I used to watch Home Improvement some, but even then I knew it was garbage. It’s just unbelievably formulaic: it seems like every goddamn episode he has a fight with his wife, misinterprets some advice from Wilson, and makes it up to her on his show late at night. Ironically, Curb Your Enthusiasm was also hugely formulaic, yet 10x better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-everybody-loves-raymond/582696.md?page=3)