# Why the Hate for France? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599 "2006-12-18T06:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/21 "2006-12-18T14:36:47Z")
Clearly, stating a dislike for an entire nation of people is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/22 "2006-12-18T15:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=mks57] There were a large number of collaborators in France during World War II. The Vichy regime and the French police showed much initiative and enthusiasm in the persecution and deportation of Jews in France. After the war, a collective amnesia descended upon France and most of them escaped punishment and many became prominent politicians and wealthy businessmen. [/QUOTE] My father was a navigator in the 8th Air Force. He was shot down over France in 1943; all the crew members bailed out. My father & a couple of the other crewmembers evaded capture with the help of the Resistance. The others spent the rest of the war in POW camps. Except for the one who landed dead–his legs were shot off by a German fighter pilot. (Not that I learned this story in person. My father’s second crash was in Canada in 1953. There were no survivors. But thanks to the Canadians who tried to help.) The more recent French-hating came from the idiots who thought invading Iraq was a good idea. They were offended that the French disagreed with them. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/23 "2006-12-18T15:19:43Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Clearly, stating a dislike for an entire nation of people is ridiculous. [/QUOTE] Do people really do that and _mean it_ may be a better question. Hell, I go along with popular criticism because it’s de rigeur, even though I have at least one French friend, several French acquaintances, and wouldn’t mind travelling in France if it weren’t for other preferences first. People get all upset at perpetrating stereotypes, but you know: they’re funny if you’re not a racist or an uptight bunghole who can’t laugh at himself once in a while. So, really, is there a truly vitriolic hatred towards the French in this country (being the USA, that is)? ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/24 "2006-12-18T15:26:09Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Clearly, stating a dislike for an entire nation of people is ridiculous. [/QUOTE] I disagree. I’ve met a number of people who hated Japan, and had good reasons for their hatred. The same applies to a number of other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/25 "2006-12-18T15:26:50Z")
I think the whole problem is a combination of these factors:[ul][_]France had the bad luck or whatever to be overrun in two world wars, and the US bailed them out both times, so[_]How _dare_ they not be forever grateful?DeGaulle and subsequent leaders taking the independent road in both domestic policy (we don’t need anyone else, we have our own nuclear energy) and foreign (not always agreeing with US/NATO goals or actions). If they ain’t with us, they’s agin us.[/ul]These attitudes seem foolish to some – similar to Israel’s arrogance – since such a relatively small nation is potentially quite vulnerable to international events. France might once again need our help, and if so, have they burned their bridges behind them? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/26 "2006-12-18T15:28:17Z")
I don’t think it has to be vitriolic to be a problem (and I don’t think you have to be uptight to perceive it as such) - even at a fairly low level, a consistent eye-rolling prejudice can lead to all sorts of damaging misunderstandings. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/27 "2006-12-18T15:30:27Z")
[QUOTE=mks57] I disagree. I’ve met a number of people who hated Japan, and had good reasons for their hatred. The same applies to a number of other countries. [/QUOTE] They had good reasons to hate _the whole of Japan_? What sort of reasons could those possibly be? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/28 "2006-12-18T15:31:18Z")
If you’re going to be prejudiced about a another nation, you need to be careful. You can’t really pick anywhere in Africa or Asia (or anyplace full of folks with different skin colour or religion). That makes a tag of racism too easy. That leaves Europe and a few other English ex-colonies. As an ex-colony itself, New Zealand, Canada etc are a bit close to the bone to criticize. We’re back with Europe. Can’t pick the mother country Can’t pick Germany (don’t mention the war etc). Can’t pick Italy or Ireland- too many Italian/Irish Americans. Scandinavians are just too nice. There aren’t really any big countries left. By a process of elimination, France draws the short xenophobic straw. ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/29 "2006-12-18T15:41:30Z")
I haven’t experienced it personally, but Mr. Stuff informs me (after extended visits to Switzerland) that the mockery of France found in the United States is as nothing compared to the mockery of France to be found in Switzerland. Maybe it was just the people he talked to (and the fact that he was primarily in German-speaking Switzerland), but he got the impression that Francophiles among the Swiss were so rare as to be nonexistent. I’d be fascinated if a Swiss citizen would weigh in on this. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/30 "2006-12-18T15:49:17Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] If you’re going to be prejudiced about a another nation, you need to be careful. You can’t really pick anywhere in Africa or Asia (or anyplace full of folks with different skin colour or religion). That makes a tag of racism too easy. That leaves Europe and a few other English ex-colonies. As an ex-colony itself, New Zealand, Canada etc are a bit close to the bone to criticize. We’re back with Europe. Can’t pick the mother country Can’t pick Germany (don’t mention the war etc). Can’t pick Italy or Ireland- too many Italian/Irish Americans. Scandinavians are just too nice. There aren’t really any big countries left. By a process of elimination, France draws the short xenophobic straw. [/QUOTE] Can’t we hate a _small_ country? One with a historically low immigration profile and no particular reputation as anything whatsoever? **BLAME LATVIA!!!** 😃 😉 :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/31 "2006-12-18T15:53:52Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Scandinavians are just too nice. [/QUOTE] Sorry about that. We _are_ working on it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/32 "2006-12-18T16:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > God created man after his own image, and man has been going downhill ever since. Right now he stands somewhere between the angels and the French. > > Mark Twain Making fun of the French is an OLD pastime. It’s probably part of our Anglic cultural heritage - in spite of having fought a revolution against them with French aid, we still have ties to British tradition. And how long have Britain and France been at each other? During periods of alliance, they restrict it to making jokes. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/33 "2006-12-18T16:06:11Z")
I think part of it is that the Americans who _really like_ France are seen as particularly annoying. A common perception is that of snotty fashionistas and liberal arts students praising the impenetrable pretenses of French culture. While the only French girl I have ever met was very nice and unpretentious, I have met several American girls who traveled there, and upon returning, wouldn’t shut up about how everyone does everything in France. So the American attitude to the French may be a mixture of being retaliatory, bitter, and even a little jealous. For example: “The French cafes are so cultured and sophisticated” with the response “The French are pretentious” “The French are so vogue and charming” “Yeah, well they don’t bathe” “The French are so progressive and not like the war mongering Americans” “The French were in control of Algeria until the 60’s. Imperialism didn’t end because of some epiphany, it ended because they could no longer enforce it” The arguments on both sides are pretty superficial, but they are true enough to a lot of people, and that’s how these things get perpetuated. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/34 "2006-12-18T16:24:40Z")
What up, **wolf.** My fellow Amesites seem to be slowly taking over the SDMB…I lived there either 11 or 19 years, depending whether you count school vacations. I’m now just outside, I should say just out of reach, of NYC. I agree with you about how some Americans overdo it with regard to France. I’d suggest they transfer some of their affection to Quebec, which is more affordable and a much easier commute. But hey, pretension is old stuff and easy to deal with. What I don’t get are Americans who seem overly reverent toward German culture (a fine and rich one needless to say, but with inherent traits somewhat incompatible with Anglo-American Enlightenment-era individualism). Most of these folks seem to be involved with college music departments, tho I suspect some are conservatives who just want to make themselves as unFrench as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/35 "2006-12-18T16:29:15Z")
[QUOTE=StuffLikeThatThere] I haven’t experienced it personally, but Mr. Stuff informs me (after extended visits to Switzerland) that the mockery of France found in the United States is as nothing compared to the mockery of France to be found in Switzerland. Maybe it was just the people he talked to (and the fact that he was primarily in German-speaking Switzerland), but he got the impression that Francophiles among the Swiss were so rare as to be nonexistent. I’d be fascinated if a Swiss citizen would weigh in on this. [/QUOTE] 1. That falls under the general “shot at the neighbors” Tradition. Ever tried to get those guys on about the Eye-talians? Ooooooh, my! 2. Yeah yeah, but I’m getting more mileage out of my lousy French than of my English. Please see Location field 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/36 "2006-12-18T17:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Can’t we hate a _small_ country? One with a historically low immigration profile and no particular reputation as anything whatsoever? **BLAME LATVIA!!!** 😃 😉 :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Well, the President of Latvia _did_ cut me off on the way to work a couple of months ago… On the other hand, the President of Latvia is a former Canadian. And the actual Latvian I have met was a very nice person. Now, Lat_ver_ia… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/37 "2006-12-18T17:55:01Z")
I think we secretly envy the French: think about it: -their lifestyle includes 6 weeks of paid vacation a year! -their cuisine is marvellous-you rarely get a bad meal in France -they aren’t squeamish or prudes-French girls have no qualms about sunbathing topless -they don’t have those moronic religious nutballs (like Jerry falwell, Oral Roberst) -they have the Riviera (and you can drive to it, from Paris) So, my fellow Americans, gaze upon a country where beautiful woman accept complements garciously, your soup l’oignion is a meal in itself, and you can see a movie that challenges your intelligence! Should we Americans be proud of: fast=crap food, religious nutballs who think the world is 600 years old, and kids who prefer ignorance to education? No thanks-I’ll take France! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/38 "2006-12-18T18:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I’ll take France! 😃 [/QUOTE] We’ll just have to hate you, then. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/39 "2006-12-18T18:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I think we secretly envy the French: think about it: -their lifestyle includes 6 weeks of paid vacation a year! -their cuisine is marvellous-you rarely get a bad meal in France -they aren’t squeamish or prudes-French girls have no qualms about sunbathing topless -they don’t have those moronic religious nutballs (like Jerry falwell, Oral Roberst) -they have the Riviera (and you can drive to it, from Paris) So, my fellow Americans, gaze upon a country where beautiful woman accept complements garciously, your soup l’oignion is a meal in itself, and you can see a movie that challenges your intelligence! Should we Americans be proud of: fast=crap food, religious nutballs who think the world is 600 years old, and kids who prefer ignorance to education? No thanks-I’ll take France! 😃 [/QUOTE] With the result that: -French competitiveness globally is plummeting -French food stinks. Stuff-stuff with Heavy. Blech. -Topless girls with hairy pits are not a turn-on. Sorry. -They have their own brand of nutball -The Riviera is all rocks. Malibu it ain’t. And I can drive to Malibu or San Diego in less than 2 hours. No thanks-I’ll take Italy, or Spain, or Britain, or Finland, or the Czech Republic, or… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599/40 "2006-12-18T18:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=treis] Does anyone like the French? [/QUOTE] 🙂 Yehyehyehyehyeh! Oh, wait, you said, **"the** French . . ." not a verb . . . never mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-france/384599.md?page=3)