# Why the hatred of Hillary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080 "2007-10-26T05:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/181 "2007-11-02T13:20:30Z")
I am shocked, SHOCKED! to think that her opponents for the nomination are not supporting her. Shame, shame… ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/182 "2007-11-02T19:32:27Z")
Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but is it deeply offensive if someone mischaracterizes Jesus, Mary, & Joseph as homeless, & if so, why? I think it’s fair to find the comparison a bit silly, but making the comparison is hardly at the level of taking bribes or trying to destroy an industry. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/183 "2007-11-02T19:54:55Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but is it deeply offensive if someone mischaracterizes Jesus, Mary, & Joseph as homeless, & if so, why? I think it’s fair to find the comparison a bit silly, but making the comparison is hardly at the level of taking bribes or trying to destroy an industry. [/QUOTE] It’s not _offensive_ to me…but IMO, it’s a pretty sad level of pandering to misrepresent them as homeless in order to garner sympathy for people who really are. It’s using them to make some kind of political point, which I find to be kind of distasteful, and making something up about them to do it seems even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/184 "2007-11-02T19:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but is it deeply offensive if someone mischaracterizes Jesus, Mary, & Joseph as homeless, & if so, why? I think it’s fair to find the comparison a bit silly, but making the comparison is hardly at the level of taking bribes or trying to destroy an industry. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure if you’re referring to me; I haven’t had time to read every post. Anyway, I never said it was deeply offensive. It hadn’t even occurred to me until just now. The problem for me is that it’s a lie. By itself, no big deal at all. But I cited it as part of a pattern of dishonesty. See above for cites. And yes, now that you mention it, it probably is offensive to many. I’m just not one of those offended. So if you tell a lie about Millard Fillmore, it’s a lie and you should lose some points if I’m thinking of voting for you for POTUS. If you tell a lie about Martin Luther King, that’s potentially a lie plus. Sounds like I might’ve changed my mind a bit there. Yeah, maybe it is offensive to some. I’ll look for your new thread, maybe someone can clarify this for me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/185 "2007-11-02T21:03:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Evntually he’ll become this enormous swirling tempest of hate from which not even truth can escape. And then he signs a national syndication deal. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/186 "2007-11-02T21:27:20Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] And then he signs a national syndication deal. [/QUOTE] Yes! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/187 "2007-11-02T21:35:37Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] Sorry, this is bugging me now. _Even_ John Edwards accused her of being disingenuous? _Even_ her opponent? _Even_ the man who can’t succeed without her campaign melting down? Whoa. [/QUOTE] Sorry to bug you, but you know what? You’re right. That was a mistake and if I could withdraw it I would. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/188 "2007-11-02T22:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It’s not _offensive_ to me…but IMO, it’s a pretty sad level of pandering to misrepresent them as homeless in order to garner sympathy for people who really are. It’s using them to make some kind of political point, which I find to be kind of distasteful, and making something up about them to do it seems even worse. [/QUOTE] Nevertheless, it is exactly the kind of thing Jesus would have done, considering the goal (“to garner sympathy for people who really are” homeless). ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/189 "2007-11-02T22:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It’s not _offensive_ to me…but IMO, it’s a pretty sad level of pandering to misrepresent them as homeless in order to garner sympathy for people who really are. It’s using them to make some kind of political point, which I find to be kind of distasteful, and making something up about them to do it seems even worse. [/QUOTE] Yeah…I hate when people use Jesus to garner support for policies involving compassion, helping the poor, etc. Much better when they just use him instead for policies of bombing other nations, oppressing gays, and fighting for the criminalization of abortion. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/190 "2007-11-02T22:42:14Z")
It’s not the sentiment I object to, it’s the sneaking feeling I get that she thinks that conservatives DON’T care about the homeless, and she can make them feel guilty about it by saying that Jesus was homeless. Not to mention the smug implication that liberals are the “right” kind of Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/191 "2007-11-02T22:55:46Z")
BTW, Christians have always helped the poor, inspired by Jesus’ actual words, not by some made up story someone might use to score political points. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/192 "2007-11-02T22:58:09Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] BTW, Christians have always helped the poor, inspired by Jesus’ actual words, not by some made up story someone might use to score political points. [/QUOTE] Pretty much…BUT…not ALL Christians, which is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/193 "2007-11-02T23:10:20Z")
I think this quibbling over whether it’s a “lie” to refer to Jesus as a “homeless person”, because he wasn’t literally homeless, is kind of ridiculous. Are we going to call St. Theresa of Lisieux a liar [for referring to Jesus as a “beggar”](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/therese/poems.x.iv.html), on the grounds that he wasn’t literally a beggar? > [@](#): > > The Little Divine Beggar of Christmas > > […] > He Who feeds the souls predestined > With His Essence all Divine, > Makes Himself the Infant Jesus > To be your delight, and mine. > Up in heaven His joy is perfect; > Here below, a beggar He. Christians have always used socially pejorative terms (“beggar”, “lowly”, “outcast”) to refer to Jesus, precisely in order to make the very same ideological point that’s being made here: namely, that Christians are supposed to care about the suffering of those who are regarded as the dregs of society. If you’re going to lambast Clinton for “lying” or “pandering” or “misrepresentation” because of this remark, or even to characterize it as “pathetic” or “silly”, you’re going to have to include in your condemnation an awful lot of other Christian politicians and activists, from late antiquity to the present, who have said exactly the same sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/194 "2007-11-02T23:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to mention the smug implication that liberals are the “right” kind of Christians. We certainly don’t want Hillary Clinton to start something like that. Because wouldn’t it be terrible if people were to use religion to further their political objectives? Thank God that’s never happened in America. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/195 "2007-11-03T02:28:04Z")
Hm. I’m not even a Xtian anymore, & I think that on some level some of the right are the “wrong” kind of Xtian. It seems hard to justify from Jesus’s teachings lowering marginal tax rates on the very rich while cutting welfare. Maybe it fits if your position is that society needs the church, not the state, to provide charity, but that sounds like jealousy over social credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/196 "2007-11-03T02:29:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I think this quibbling over whether it’s a “lie” to refer to Jesus as a “homeless person”, because he wasn’t literally homeless, is kind of ridiculous. [/QUOTE] On what basis do you say it’s ridiculous? Can you cite an argument where a conservative was labeled a “liar” because s/he lied, and you stepped in to say it was ridiculous? It sounds like you’re trying to divert the conversation away from the real point. The point is that she lied. That’s it. BTW what’s the difference between “literally homeless” and “homeless?” Is your point that travelers are “homeless” but not “literally homeless?” Does this mean that since I’ve done some traveling I can come to SDMB and say “I know what it’s like to be homeless?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/197 "2007-11-03T02:57:18Z")
> [@Plan B](#): > > On what basis do you say it’s ridiculous? Because, as I noted before, Clinton’s statement is just part of a long tradition of Christians using socially pejorative (but not literally true) terms to describe Jesus, such as “beggar” and “outcast”. If we’re going to call that “lies”, we have to apply the term to much of Christological doctrine in general. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/198 "2007-11-03T17:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Because, as I noted before, Clinton’s statement is just part of a long tradition of Christians using socially pejorative (but not literally true) terms to describe Jesus, such as “beggar” and “outcast”. If we’re going to call that “lies”, we have to apply the term to much of Christological doctrine in general. [/QUOTE] Exactly. The entire Nativity story is meant to show how low his birth was, that he rose from nothing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/199 "2007-11-03T18:41:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It’s not the sentiment I object to, it’s the sneaking feeling I get that she thinks that conservatives DON’T care about the homeless . . . [/QUOTE] So? That may not be true of conservatives in general, but it is patently true for all practical purposes of conservatives **in power.** ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/200 "2007-11-04T02:14:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] So? That may not be true of conservatives in general, but it is patently true for all practical purposes of conservatives **in power.** [/QUOTE] cite? Patently true? That should be easy to cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080.md?page=11)