# Why the hatred of Hillary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080 "2007-10-26T05:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/141 "2007-10-31T15:01:58Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] [http://www.wnyc.org/blog/lehrer/archives/000064.html](http://www.wnyc.org/blog/lehrer/archives/000064.html) [/QUOTE] The link makes it pretty clear that there was a miscommunication/misinterpretation of events. It sounded like Hillary was saying Chelsea heard the planes hit when she likely heard the towers fall. And there’s something about jogging that may or may not have happened. What a harpy! Can I also have a cite for ‘shrill’ and ‘mean’? Or at least a few instances of either insulted being lobbed at a male politician? Wouldn’t it just be easier to call her hysterical? (ETA not from Plan B but from the poster who used both terms, or anyone who agrees with them. It’s just that I’ve never heard someone say, ‘That Bush. Starting wars and risking lives- how mean!’) ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/142 "2007-10-31T15:37:39Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Nobody really uses GNP anymore, GDP is the term now preferred to describe the national output (although in reality they don’t vary by much, maybe 0.1%). The article referenced does point out that the true impact of the war on the budget deficit is being delayed/obscured because the war has been funded from emergency appropriations instead of an actual budget item. However, your figure of 1% seems suspect, so I did some digging. According to the CIA world factbook, the US public debt as percentage of GDP is 67% ([cite](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html) ). In fact wikipedia puts this information in a [table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) where you can see, unsurprisingly, that under GWB, the deficit as a percentage of GDP has risen to its highest point _ever_. (It also shows how “fiscally conservative” republicans Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 are the highest deficit-raisers of all time). I’m not certain what argument you’re trying to make here, but it’s best not to try for republicans being fiscally responsible or keeping the deficit down. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say anything about cumulative public debt. Please read your own post where you quote me. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/143 "2007-10-31T15:41:42Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] See above. Now it’s not just massive, but whopping. Actually it’s tiny. And it is certainly a matter of opinion. Your saying it is true does not end debate. [/QUOTE] Well, I would say that whether or not there is a massive deficit or not is a matter of fact, not opinion (except for maybe how to define the term “massive”). But whether or not it’s a problem that needs to be “fixed,” or whether or not we need to raise taxes to do so, is absolutely a matter of opinion. That is why I had an issue with what **BrainGlutton** said to you. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/144 "2007-10-31T16:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] I didn’t say anything about cumulative public debt. [/quote] Oh, alright. Then which fiscal period are you talking about, can you provide a cite for your number so that we may read it in context and perform an honesty check? > [@Plan B](#): > > Please read your own post where you quote me. Alright, in fact I’ll do you one better and look at the quote you responded to. > [@Plan B](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Is it your opinion that America should be massively in **debt**? > > (bolding mine) Budget deficit is now down to 1% of GNP and shrinking. That’s massive??? You responded to the comment about America’s massive debt by quoting an unrelated statistic. Did you just learned the difference after you posted that comment, or were you being intentionally deceptive? ---
**Author:** ![xxfireangel13xx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/cab0a1/32.png) [@xxfireangel13xx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xxfireangel13xx)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/145 "2007-10-31T16:56:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] No, I was making a joke. This happens sometimes, yet I find I’m not very good at it. You see it’s not just Right Wing Dittoheads that dislike her. While **BobLibDem** (capitalization right?) and I have very little in common, he’s far to the left of her and I’m on a whole different axis, we both dislike the Republican Party _and_ Hillary Clinton. [/QUOTE] OK lol… well jokes are hard to catch on this. Yes I realized some dems don’t like her either.. I think she’s more moderate which I like for the simple fact that she’s not too far left or too far right. I don’t agree with some of the things that she has done or positions she has but I do like her more than the others because she is not so one sided and I think that is a very important characteristic to have for a president. One that I think this country needs.. I just really can’t wait to see how the elections go. Everyone says even if she wins the primary, there is no way she’ll win the presidency… but i’m not convinced yet…it’ll be exciting to see who actually takes over. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/146 "2007-10-31T19:29:16Z")
HRC, BTW and FWIW, appears on the National Security Whistleblowers’ Campaign’s [“Dirty Dozen” list](http://nswbc.org/DirtyDozen/Interview-Re-DirtyDozen.htm) of the twelve members of Congress who have, “by action or inaction,” most egregiously obstructed investigation of government waste, fraud or crime. (In fact she **heads** the list, but only by virtue of alphabetical order.) She is one of only two Democrats on that list (the other being Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger); Joe Lieberman (no longer a Dem, but, well, **you** know . . .) is also on it. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/147 "2007-10-31T19:43:49Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] I didn’t say anything about cumulative public debt. Please read your own post where you quote me. [/QUOTE] No, but you did quote a figure about the deficit. As the linked article shows, The Iraq War is being funded off-budget. That means that the expenses are being written down on an entirely different piece of paper, which, as any accountant can tell you, means it’s free. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/148 "2007-10-31T19:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] - The Clinton’s [failed] Whitewater investment which involved a real-estate deal between a sitting Governor and an employee. Hillary did legal work for the McDougals who in turn committed fraudulent loans that brought down a financial institution. The billing records of those transactions went missing for years and then turned up in the White House. [/quote] Ethically questionable, perhaps, but it was the Clintons who took a bath on that. No wrongdoing has ever been turned up, despite the exertions of the special prosecutor. I would also point out that something called a “Whitewater Report” ought to use the word “Whitewater” more often than the word “anus.” > [@](#): > > Hillary’s health care initiative which was very unpopular. During this initiative she went to the stock market and sold short in pharmaceuticals while publicly slamming them. I’ve never seen any evidence of this. Do you have a cite? > [@](#): > > Travelgate They fired some people who were doing unsatisfactory jobs. So? > [@](#): > > Filegate I don’t recall Hilary being involved with any of this. > [@](#): > > A freak show of bimbo’s that her husband would bring [back] to the White House. Never heard about any of this. > [@](#): > > The Clinton legacy of campaign contributions from Chinese interests That was problematic, but if you want to look at campaign contributions, most major candidates would be equally problematic. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/149 "2007-11-01T00:00:01Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] In fact wikipedia puts this information in a [table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) where you can see, unsurprisingly, that under GWB, the deficit as a percentage of GDP has risen to its highest point _ever_. (It also shows how “fiscally conservative” republicans Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 are the highest deficit-raisers of all time). [/QUOTE] Not “ever.” Highest since 1955. There have been higher debts during certain wars, although the present Iraq action probably wouldn’t create that much debt if managed sensibly with an actual tax base. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/150 "2007-11-01T00:08:26Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] That was problematic, but if you want to look at campaign contributions, most major candidates would be equally problematic. [/QUOTE] Absolutely wrong. There is a difference from getting one or two contributions from bad guys w/o any prior knowledge and an ongoing pattern that goes on to multiple campaigns. There should be major investigations into what’s going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/151 "2007-11-01T00:24:27Z")
Actually, I’ve read that a group of conservative bloggers have lodged a complaint with the FEC asking that they investigate Hillary’s campaign contributions and contributors. (BTW, what’s with this “misstep” that she apparently made about illegal immigration last night?) ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/152 "2007-11-01T00:36:29Z")
It’s about Spitzer’s driver’s license plan for illegals. Taking a cue from John Kerry, since it worked so well for him, apparently she was for it before she was against it. Even John Edwards accused her of being disingenous. [http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/627844,CST-NWS-sweet31.article](http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/627844,CST-NWS-sweet31.article) This is a good thread. Every day there’s a new reason to hate HC. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/153 "2007-11-01T00:43:06Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] Every day there’s a new reason to hate HC. [/QUOTE] So what are your plans after she is elected President? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/154 "2007-11-01T00:45:28Z")
More hate. Then the next day, still more hate. Evntually he’ll become this enormous swirling tempest of hate from which not even truth can escape. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/155 "2007-11-01T01:26:30Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] More hate. Then the next day, still more hate. Evntually he’ll become this enormous swirling tempest of hate from which not even truth can escape. [/QUOTE] On what basis are you saying that, since you don’t even know me? I doubt that she’ll be elected, since her negatives are rising. Just reached 50% IIRC. But if she is, I’ll decide what to do then. I can tell you for sure that I won’t leave the country, I won’t hope for American troops to die in any war that she’s involved in and I won’t hope that millions of Americans go broke so we can blame her. I’ll probably just focus on the fact that she’ll veer towards the center in order to get re-elected. And that this is an amazingly great and powerful country that has survived much worse than HC would ever do to it. And I happen to be one of the least angry people you’ll never meet. I only used the word _hate_ because of the title of the thread. But if you want to see examples of people that choose to spend their lives hating, just scroll back a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/156 "2007-11-01T03:30:50Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] On what basis are you saying that, since you don’t even know me? [/QUOTE] This: > [@](#): > > Every day there’s a new reason to hate HC. And as for the recent polling trends on Hillary versus Rudy, think back to 1991 when Bush 1’s approval rating was in the upper 60% range and then Governor Bill Clinton was polling in the 20’s - only a year before election day. Something similar happened in 2000. Bush 2 was ahead anywhere from 2% to 10% depending on what poll you look at, but in the end Gore wone the popular vote. Anyone who attempts to extrapolate results of an election that is a year away based on unripe polling is just plain foolish. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/157 "2007-11-01T03:55:08Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] There should be major investigations into what’s going on there. [/QUOTE] “Major investigations” are warranted only on suspicion of illegality. (Investigations by government, that is, which is what I think you mean; journalists may investigate anything that might be embarrassing.) WRT campaign contributions from “Chinese interests,” what crime do you see? ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/158 "2007-11-01T11:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] what crime do you see? [/QUOTE] Violations of campaign finance laws, which leads to suspicions of bribery. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/159 "2007-11-01T11:32:23Z")
I just heard a new quote. HC: “At Christmas we celebrate the birth of a homeless person.” Which happens to be an outright lie. Cite: Hugh Hewitt interview with Mark Steyn 10/25/07 Available free via [townhall.com](http://townhall.com) Quote is in first ten minutes of podcast ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080/160 "2007-11-01T11:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] This: And as for the recent polling trends on Hillary versus Rudy, [/QUOTE] Please re-read what I wrote. I used the word _hate_ because that’s how the thread is worded. I could just as easily have responded in kind to a thread worded: Why the inclination to look for candidates other than HC in order to express your lovng care and altruism for future generations of Americans and citizens of other lands? I never mentioned HC vs. Giuliani. I said that her negatives just reached 50%, and they are rising as people get to know her better. And with the latest flip-flop on immigration and Obama and Edwards starting to take the gloves off, we’ll see more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hatred-of-hillary/424080.md?page=9)