# Why the Hell are we still in Afghanistan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416 "2009-09-17T06:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/81 "2009-09-23T15:52:45Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Also, who’d be stupid enough to build one there given the history of the region? Anyone who has the US military at their disposal to secure it. If it was admitted that our major purpose there is to build and maintain a pipeline and that were made only our military objective, we could immediately withdraw (WAG) half our troops and turn the whole thing over to private contractors in a year or two There is more to the equation, however. You may have heard that heroin (poppies) is a big deal there. Behind oil and arms, drug trafficking is the worlds biggest industry and Afghanistan today produces over 90% of the world’s opium. Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world’s largest heroin dealer and makin’ lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Then, conveniently, we had 9/11 and within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. And (talk about irony), Hamid Karzai, the guy we’re trying to “democratically” install as president was the Taliban’s chief drug lord. Anyone who recognizes the historical record of the CIA involvement in drug trafficking to fund covert operations might see a correlation here. US corporations historically have used the US military to establish and hold a global economic hegemony (empire). This all out war on the world (with its huge human toll) benefits no one but those who arm and fuel it and those who profit peripherally. And that’s the answer to the OP, imo. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/82 "2009-09-23T16:41:53Z")
[Marines on ground in Libya By Jody Brown – The New Dark Age](http://www.williambowles.info/guests/marines.html) Smedley Butler the most decorated soldier of WW1 made it clear who he was done fighting for. He said we fight for corporations, with our gains measured in dollars and our losses in lives. If anyone really believes we had a duty to remove Saddam, what do they think about the other 60 or so dictatorships in the world. Please make a list for us so we can get them in the proper order.War is business. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/83 "2009-09-23T17:34:24Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > If it was admitted that our major purpose there is to build and maintain a pipeline and that were made only our military objective, we could immediately withdraw (WAG) half our troops and turn the whole thing over to private contractors in a year or two And yet there is no pipeline being built nor any admission of one to be built, nor is the government who started the war still in power to give their buddies permission to build one. > [@](#): > > Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world’s largest heroin dealer and makin’ lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Then, conveniently, we had 9/11 and within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. What the hell? > [@](#): > > This all out war on the world (with its huge human toll) benefits no one but those who arm and fuel it and those who profit peripherally. And that’s the answer to the OP, imo. Listen. You must take your meds everyday. Skipping days results in paranoid delusional posts like you’ve just made that have no basis in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/84 "2009-09-23T17:36:14Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Or it may mean that we actively convince legions of new people to _become_ our enemy. And round and round we go. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/85 "2009-09-23T18:43:34Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > … > > > [@](#): > > > > Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world’s largest heroin dealer and makin’ lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Then, conveniently, we had 9/11 and within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. > > What the hell? What’s your problem? Factual error?[Check this out.](http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3294) Especially table 1 at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/86 "2009-09-23T18:59:59Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > What’s your problem? Factual error?[Check this out.](http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3294) Especially table 1 at the bottom. I trim posts too much sometimes is seems: > [@](#): > > Anyone who recognizes the historical record of the CIA involvement in drug trafficking to fund covert operations might see a correlation here. My problem is with paranoid idiots. If it isn’t oil and the business around it then it’s the CIA and the drug trade. The war in Afghanistan is due to the Taliban harboring Al-Qaeda. Why is it necessary to read more into than that? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/87 "2009-09-23T19:01:11Z")
[http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/](http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/) Here’s the thread . She has been biogging about Iraq from the inside since we started trashing it. The first entry is the speech by the shoe thrower. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/88 "2009-09-23T22:43:23Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > … > > > [@](#): > > > > Anyone who recognizes the historical record of the CIA involvement in drug trafficking to fund covert operations might see a correlation here. > > My problem is with paranoid idiots. If it isn’t oil and the business around it then it’s the CIA and the drug trade. The war in Afghanistan is due to the Taliban harboring Al-Qaeda. Why is it necessary to read more into than that? Because our history of military/CIA interventions demands it. How well have we accomplished two of our stated goals namely ending the Afghan drug trade and establishing a stable “democracy”? You shouldn’t be concerning yourself with _my_ meds. If you and **Curtis LeMay** would quit sipping that neo-con kool aid (mom and apple pie flavor, I believe), it would clear your head. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/89 "2009-09-23T23:23:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There are still believers in the American myth. Congrats, Lemay but reality should begin to creep in sometime. Who is better off when we go in? > What do you point to as an indicator that America makes places more peaceful. Iraqis are going to pay the price for our intrusion into their life for a long time. We destroyed venerated churches and buildings. We destroyed their infrastructure. Millions of the educated fled. There are orphans and widows that will never forgive us. There are thousands of homeless. Your type are not the solution. You are the problem. > The Taliban are in Pakistan cooking up more soldiers to fight us. I suppose you want to go in there next. Then what? They will just wait for us to come. Nope. They will move away again. They do not have fixed bases to bomb. They do not sit and wait for us. They contol 80 percent of Afghanistan now. We keep getting whipped by backward countries with no air force or navies. Yet people like you don’t learn. Lets do it again, and again and again. Maybe sometime it will work. No I don’t supporting invading Pakistan. Besides what do you propose you do give up and surrender in the eyes of the world and indure the humiliation of an another Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/90 "2009-09-24T00:20:26Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > But the thing is, you keep losing. We’re 10-1, and headed to the Superbowl. What are you jabbering about? Losing? Vietnam is our only loss so far, and that was more of a forfeit of will on our part, and a failure to engage in warfare properly from the outset. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/91 "2009-09-24T00:56:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Besides what do you propose you do give up and surrender in the eyes of the world and indure the humiliation of an another Vietnam? Nah, lets just throw bodies at the problem for another eight years and hope things get better: > [@](#): > > RUMSFELD: Oh, come on. People are fungible. You can have them here or there. The fact of the matter is we’ve made a judgment, and we’ve announced the judgment. > > RUMSFELD: It’s very clear – you understand it, everyone in the room understands it – that we needed additional – the commander decided he would like to retain in country an additional, plus or minus, 20,000 people. And that’s what we’re doing. > > The situation in Fallujah, General Pace has described precisely. And it is not over, and it will end. And it will end at some point without the people currently terrorizing the people of Fallujah in that town and holding that town – it will end with them not doing that. > > And you can put them into several categories, as General Pace suggested. One, there are some foreign terrorists there. There are also some foreigners who have lived in that city a long time. And there are also some Iraqis who are dead-enders. > > And it’s a mixture of several elements, and I can’t tell you which percentage it is or exactly how many there are. No one can. We’ll know a lot more about that, who they are and the numbers, soon. > **[CNN.com - Transcripts](https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/lol/date/2004-04-15/segment/04)** ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/92 "2009-09-24T01:18:47Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No I don’t supporting invading Pakistan. Besides what do you propose you do give up and surrender in the eyes of the world and indure the humiliation of an another Vietnam? > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > We’re 10-1, and headed to the Superbowl. What are you jabbering about? Losing? Vietnam is our only loss so far, and that was more of a forfeit of will on our part, and a failure to engage in warfare properly from the outset. Now come _on_, you two. Do you really think we “lost” in Vietnam? Our sole mission there was to drive Vietnam into the stone age without foliage, which we did. With any luck and lots of money, they’ll have cleaned the country of our unexploded ordinance in 30 years. Why would we do this to a popular government as it emerged at the end of WW2 after having fought with us against the Japanese and having been promised independence at its end by Roosevelt? Vietnam was everything we did not want to see developing independently in SE Asia, namely, popular socialist governments and widespread land reform. A very bad example for SE Asia and the rest of the world, especially the American electorate. Vietnam was the big domino. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/93 "2009-09-24T01:28:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No I don’t supporting invading Pakistan. Besides what do you propose you do give up and surrender in the eyes of the world and indure the humiliation of an another Vietnam? It is a tricky concept for neocons…negotiation. We are fighting people who have grown up fighting. they have been born, raised and when they got old enough became soldiers. They have always been soldiers. their leaders don’t quit and go home to families far away. they fight their whole lives. You get pretty good at it after a while. They are on their turf, protecting their homes from invaders. They do not have the option of quitting.How hard would we fight if someone landed in America.We would have people who know every inch of the terrain. We could, hide ,and sneak up on them at night. we would have a huge advantage. They just want peace. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/94 "2009-09-24T01:59:08Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Now come _on_, you two. Do you really think we “lost” in Vietnam? Our sole mission there was to drive Vietnam into the stone age without foliage, which we did. With any luck and lots of money, they’ll have cleaned the country of our unexploded ordinance in 30 years. > > Why would we do this to a popular government as it emerged at the end of WW2 after having fought with us against the Japanese and having been promised independence at its end by Roosevelt? > > Vietnam was everything we did not want to see developing independently in SE Asia, namely, popular socialist governments and widespread land reform. A very bad example for SE Asia and the rest of the world, especially the American electorate. > > Vietnam was the big domino. We should have never been involved in the Vietnam affair, but once we decided to do so, it shouldn’t have been the half-hearted gradual ramping up of military infusion that it ended up being. We could have easily overcome the North had we committed the resources available to us from the outset. That was a badly fought political war with too many restrictions and to little total commitment. But again, we should have never been involved in the first place, much like Iraq…just shouldn’t have gone there. Selah on that war. I don’t buy the Afghanistan vs Vietnam comparisons other than the potential for quagmire. I don’t see that developing just yet. It’s true that the Iraq War diverted key resources and commitment from the Afghanistan War, eroding it’s purpose, but I am pleased with Obama’s supposed determination to fight the good fight over there. I am ex-military with a family chock full of soldiers and fighters dating back to WWI, and I don’t really care what some of you think about what we’re doing over there. It was the right thing to do to go in there and dispose of Al-Qaeda, and it’s the right thing to do to kill as many Taliban as we can in the process. They are the evil here, not us. I don’t much care about them fleeing like the cowards they are into Pakistan, either. We are encroaching on Pakistan’s sovereignty with our drones, and I expect that to continue whether Pakistan likes it or not. Until the clamping down on runaway provinces of Pakistan occurs (which it appears to be), Al-Qaeda has a safe haven, which we promised to ourselves we would not tolerate, and we shouldn’t. Fuck them all, I hope we slaughter them like the dogs they are. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/95 "2009-09-24T02:02:50Z")
[Smedley Butler on Interventionism](http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm) Here is why we will never know peace. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/96 "2009-09-24T02:12:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm](http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm) Here is why we will never know peace. Funny how he doesn’t mention WWI or WWII. I suppose those wars were profiteering enterprises for the military industrial complex too, where we wagged the dog and fabricated enemies. The Kaiser didn’t exist, he was an illusion. Hitler was actually quite fond of Jews. Japan never attacked us, it was an elaborate hoax. We should have never been involved in those wars, eh? It wasn’t our business, Europe was an ocean away. We should have just stood pat and waited for a trans-Atlantic crossing of foreign invaders before we acted. That would have been the prudent course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/97 "2009-09-24T04:08:36Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Because our history of military/CIA interventions demands it. How well have we accomplished two of our stated goals namely ending the Afghan drug trade and establishing a stable “democracy”? Since when was one of the reasons Afghanistan was invaded by NATO was to eliminate the drug trade? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/98 "2009-09-24T04:30:21Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Since when was one of the reasons Afghanistan was invaded by NATO was to eliminate the drug trade? When we went in, there was nothing to eliminate, the Taliban had just done it. > [@](#): > > Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world’s largest heroin dealer and makin’ lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Then, conveniently, we had 9/11 and within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. But it is one of our stated reasons for being there now. Strange how we’ve installed one of the Taliban’s heavy drug lords as president to oversee the project. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/99 "2009-09-24T04:37:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Funny how he doesn’t mention WWI or WWII. I suppose those wars were profiteering enterprises for the military industrial complex too, where we wagged the dog and fabricated enemies. The Kaiser didn’t exist, he was an illusion. Hitler was actually quite fond of Jews. Japan never attacked us, it was an elaborate hoax. > > We should have never been involved in those wars, eh? It wasn’t our business, Europe was an ocean away. We should have just stood pat and waited for a trans-Atlantic crossing of foreign invaders before we acted. That would have been the prudent course of action. He was the most decorated soldier in WW1. He was a war hero who corporations put to work. All wars are about money. Socrates…It is not new. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416/100 "2009-09-24T05:51:26Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > But it is one of our stated reasons for being there now. Strange how we’ve installed one of the Taliban’s heavy drug lords as president to oversee the project. So, we’re there to eliminate the opium, but we’re also there so that the CIA can somehow get money by growing the stuff? How does the CIA get money from the growing of opium in Afghanistan? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hell-are-we-still-in-afghanistan/510416.md?page=6)