# Why the hostility towards states that want to secede? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174 "2012-11-16T10:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/1 "2012-11-16T10:33:17Z")
As of now, each of the U.S.'s 50 states have filed a petition for secession, with great fluctuation in the intensity of desire. [http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-petition-updates-demand-for-50-states-to-secede-union-increases](http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-petition-updates-demand-for-50-states-to-secede-union-increases) I’ve seen quite a bit of hostility towards the states that would be more serious in their intentions (i.e. the Southeast). I’ve seen people with the opinion that, if a state were to PEACEFULLY secede, that the federal government should violently oppose. Can anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why secession should not only be forbidden, but violently opposed? Is it so absurd to think that large portions of the country are afraid of the direction that we’re headed? Say the Gulf Coast (TX, LA, MS, AL, FL) were to break off, implement their own new currency and new consitution that allowed significantly more economic freedom while maintaining the status quo socially. The combined GDP of said new “country” would be 2,365,040,000,000, the 6th largest on the planet right behind France and ahead of the UK. Now, assuming the “country” doesn’t stop people from leaving, why the hostility? Why are so many Americans so afraid of a choice? Since the foundation of this country, so much power has moved from the states to the federal government, essentially removing choice from Americans to choose what kind of society they live in. The Civil War started from similar conditions, with the (obviously) massive wild card of slavery. While gay marriage (which is unfortunately frowned upon by a majority of states, both in the north and south) and a few other issues are clear cases of discrimination, no social issues today even sniff that level of dumbfuckery. If this hypothetical case of the United States of the South Eastern Conference were to come up, would you support a violent retaliation? If you would support said retaliation, do you support the current wars/occupations in the middle east? If you DO NOT support the wars in the middle east, do you think the USotSEC would dedicate resources towards the wars in the middle east? Would not the decrease in finances/manpower towards these wars be a positive result of the secession? ---
**Author:** ![IClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c37758/32.png) [@IClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IClaudius)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/2 "2012-11-16T10:44:40Z")
Because it’s a totally ridiculous tantrum brought on by a childish sense of pique from team Republican losing the election, and the general background nonsense emanating from the conservative entertainment complex which has convinced a lot of credulous people they are truly subject to tyranny. It would be equally stupid for pure economic reasons, but the hysteria and disinformation driving it makes it ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/3 "2012-11-16T10:45:01Z")
How much of their share of the debt are they willing to take with them? How much are they willing to pay for any of the federally owned property in the state. Certain states, like NV, are mostly federal property. There are some very tricky financial considerations, but I don’t have any fundamental objections to the idea of allowing states to secede from the union in the US. Now, letting them back in when they come crying home to mommy is another matter! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/4 "2012-11-16T10:52:29Z")
It’s the ‘I’m going to Canada if we lose’ for people who don’t want to go to Canada. Might have some validity if they stated before the election they didn’t believe in the current arrangement and boycotted the vote. To vote and then say ‘I don’t like the result’ impacts just a little on their democratic credentials. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/5 "2012-11-16T10:57:17Z")
The OP is asking two different questions, and he’s going to get mostly answers to the first. The first being, why the hostility towards folks looking to secede now. The second question is, theoretically, should we allow state to secede if they democratically decide to do so. The thread title is part of the problem-- no “state” is trying to secede. A few nutjobs in many of the states are signing petitions to do so, which is a very different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/6 "2012-11-16T10:58:28Z")
None of the states has even entertained the idea, AFAIK. To the contrary, merely a small number of disgruntled people have signed online petitions–and there’s no way to prove that it’s not the same people, or some of the same people, signing the petition for more than one state. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/7 "2012-11-16T10:59:34Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > As of now, each of the U.S.'s 50 states have filed a petition for secession, with great fluctuation in the intensity of desire. [http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-petition-updates-demand-for-50-states-to-secede-union-increases](http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-petition-updates-demand-for-50-states-to-secede-union-increases) No, 50 states have _not_ filed petitions for secession. Fifty private citizens with no governmental authority or influence, who in no way speak for the government of any state, have filed petitions on an internet site with absolutely no legal force or significance whatsoever, and most of the signatories to those petitions don’t even live in the relevant state. This isn’t legitimate political expression, it’s trolling. ---
**Author:** ![IClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c37758/32.png) [@IClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IClaudius)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/8 "2012-11-16T11:02:31Z")
I think a “just world” theory drives a lot of conservative cognition and so when there is a misalignment between what happens and what they think ought to happen, the sky must be falling in and there must be something rotten in the system. The election result applied a needle to this epistemic and meta-ethical bubble, and its unexpected decisiveness threatened that this comfortable bubble might never be restored. But that too is greatly exaggerated. Factional contests are always in flux and there will be plenty of future Republican Presidents and Republican Senates. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/9 "2012-11-16T11:04:31Z")
My only request is that someone let me know soon enough that I can grab a rental moving van before they are all spoken for. If GA wants to join the Southern Republic of Dumbfuckery, then I’m heading North dammit. I would forecast a massive brain- drain from any states wanting to secede. To your original post though, lets clarify a few things. [ul] [li]One, not a single STATE has started a petition to secede, individual butthurt Republicans whiners have.[/li][li]Secondly, many of the signatures on those petitions come from people outside the state, jokingly (somewhat) showing the state they would like to kick out of the union. I myself signed the petition to have Texas secede and I ain’t no Texan. Please, Texas, go, just go.[/li][li]Thirdly, how did that whole secede thing work out the first time?[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/10 "2012-11-16T11:05:03Z")
How about this: \*some \*Americans love their country, and don’t want to see it torn apart. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/11 "2012-11-16T11:07:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about this: \*some \*Americans love their country, and don’t want to see it torn apart. Torn apart by a democratic mandate. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/12 "2012-11-16T11:09:55Z")
> [@IClaudius](#): > > Because it’s a totally ridiculous tantrum brought on by a childish sense of pique from team Republican losing the election, and the general background nonsense emanating from the conservative entertainment complex which has convinced a lot of credulous people they are truly subject to tyranny. I would support my state (LA) seceding, and I would strongly considering moving to TX if they seceded and implemented an economic policy that was freer than the current national one (not difficult to do). I am a RINO (registered so as to vote in the R primaries) and I am not conservative. > [@](#): > > It would be equally stupid for pure economic reasons, Explain please. If you haven’t noticed, the Gulf Coast has ~1.5 metric fucktons of oil that the rest of the country is reliant upon. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/13 "2012-11-16T11:10:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about this: \*some \*Americans love their country, and don’t want to see it torn apart. You love your country so much that you’re willing to kill someone that wants no part of it? You sound like a neocon warhawk. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/14 "2012-11-16T11:12:37Z")
[quote=“leftfield6, post:9, topic:641174”] [li]One, not a single STATE has started a petition to secede, individual butthurt Republicans whiners have.[/li][/quote] That’s fine. Let’s talk about this hypothetically. > [@](#): > > [li]Thirdly, how did that whole secede thing work out the first time?[/li][/LIST] Did you read my OP? ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/15 "2012-11-16T11:14:14Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It’s the ‘I’m going to Canada if we lose’ for people who don’t want to go to Canada. Would you have supported preventing whichever Baldwin said this from moving to Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/16 "2012-11-16T11:17:42Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > You love your country so much that you’re willing to kill someone that wants no part of it? You sound like a neocon warhawk. If they want no part of it, they’re free to leave. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/17 "2012-11-16T11:17:42Z")
PS: I agree that it was a poorly worded OP. I would edit it to say “citizens in each of the U.S.'s 50 states have filed…” if I could. If a mod would kindly edit it to be more accurate, I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/18 "2012-11-16T11:20:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If they want no part of it, they’re free to leave. I agree 100%. I just wish it didn’t have to come down to leaving the country/seceding talk. Transferring power back to the states from the Fedgov would go a long way towards stopping it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/19 "2012-11-16T11:21:53Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > I agree 100%. I just wish it didn’t have to come down to leaving the country/seceding talk. Transferring power back to the states from the Fedgov would go a long way towards stopping it. You misunderstand - they’re free to leave and live in another country. They can’t take their land with them. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/20 "2012-11-16T11:23:29Z")
People talking about secession from the US have rarely thought about what issues would need to be settled. - Would the independent state take on a share of the federal debt? And would they do so by issuing bonds from the treasury of the state? - Would the independent state take on the future social security entitlements of its citizens? - Would the state have its own currency, floating against the US dollar, or would they use the US dollar as a currency? - Would they take over US military bases in the state, and if so on what terms? - How would they feel about losing all the direct and indirect subsidies provided by the federal government. (For example, if there’s a major defence contractor in the state, that contract’s not going to be renewed after independence, and the new state will have to take over the maintenance of federal highways.) - Will all its citizens need passports and visas for travel to and from the US? (The new citizenship laws may create a lot of dual citizens, who would presumably need to carry two passports for international travel.) - What sort of trade treaties will they have with Canada, the US and Mexico? Would they be allowed to join NAFTA? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174.md?page=2)