# Why the hostility towards states that want to secede? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174 "2012-11-16T10:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/81 "2012-11-16T15:07:23Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It’s the ‘I’m going to Canada if we lose’ for people who don’t want to go to Canada. > > Might have some validity if they stated before the election they didn’t believe in the current arrangement and boycotted the vote. To vote and then say ‘I don’t like the result’ impacts just a little on their democratic credentials. Good luck with going to Canada…Quebec voted something like 48 to 52 to secede from Canada a few years ago. Also, some folks in Key West seem to think they have seceded from the USA in 1982…call themselves “the Conch Republic” and use the Conch as the local dollar. They US Army, 478th battalion, invaded the Conch Republic in 1995 and were driven back by the Conch Navy, Air Force, and Army (seriously) who used water cannons to drive out the invaders. The 478th issued a letter that stated we : " “in no way meant to challenge or impugn the sovereignty of the Conch Republic”…and the 478th even attended surrender ceremony on September 22, 1995 > **[Home | The Official Website of the Conch Republic](https://conchrepublic.com/)** > > Welcome to the official website of the Conch Republic, here you'll find information about our Key West micronation. Browse our site for more! ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/82 "2012-11-16T15:07:24Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Santorum finished first Which I found both saddening and terrifying. > [@](#): > > The Republic of Louisiana wouldn’t be some bastion of economic freedom and liberty - it would be a socially conservative, evangelical theocracy. It would be exactly as it is now socially with (probably) the exception of abortion. Unlike the FedGov (LOL I’M AN IDIOT!), Louisiana had a $130m surplus last year ([Politics | News from The Advocate](http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/louisiana_expected_to_see_130.html)) as opposed to the US’s ~$1 trillion deficit. If we were to keep the oil reserves that are reasonably close to us (the FedGov considers anything more than 4 miles away from our coast to be national waters, despite drilling in those areas having an effect on the LA environment), we would be in even better shape. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/83 "2012-11-16T15:10:35Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > No such thing as a peaceful secession. Explain why a portion of the country saying “we will not fight you, but we no longer want to be a part of this nation” != peaceful. > [@](#): > > I’m white, you idiot. OK? I never implied what race you are. I think you severely misinterpreted my post. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/84 "2012-11-16T15:13:00Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > \*YOU \*are the only one who is hostile 😕 > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Oh, and I’m white, you idiot. I may have gotten snippy a few times in this thread, but I don’t recall calling anyone any names. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/85 "2012-11-16T15:18:20Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > I find it pretty sad that so many of you are comparing a secession that would be primarily based on economic freedom to the South’s secession based primarily on slavery. What do you think slavery as a southern institution was? While there were plenty of southerners who defended it on phony moral grounds, by far the biggest reason the South used slaves was to preserve their economic system, which was a white oligarchy presiding over a low-wage, low-tax, low-regulation environment attractive to foreign capital. Which is the same “economic freedom” leaders in these states would like today. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/86 "2012-11-16T15:20:58Z")
For starters, I get “404 Not Found” on the article in the OP. Maybe the _Examiner_ has seceded from the internet? Secondly, it’s already been noted that no _state_ has shown the slightest interest in seceding. But what about this: > [@BabaBooey](#): > > As of now, each of the U.S.'s 50 states have filed a petition Has _filed?__Filed_ where? Starting a petition online is not _filing_ a petition, you know. That would be “formally submitting a request,” and if anyone had done so, where would they file it? Fort Sumter? Is there an “office of leaving the Union” somewhere, at which such requests would be filed? > [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Torn apart by a democratic mandate. I guess that’s assuming there would be a majority behind secession. Currently there is not, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/87 "2012-11-16T15:25:14Z")
Having just noticed this thread for the first time, I flipped through it certain that it was a parody or something. Then I realized you were actually serious. > [@BabaBooey](#): > > It would be exactly as it is now socially with (probably) the exception of abortion. Unlike the FedGov (LOL I’M AN IDIOT!), Louisiana had a $130m surplus last year ([Politics | News from The Advocate](http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/louisiana_expected_to_see_130.html)) as opposed to the US’s ~$1 trillion deficit. If we were to keep the oil reserves that are reasonably close to us (the FedGov considers anything more than 4 miles away from our coast to be national waters, despite drilling in those areas having an effect on the LA environment), we would be in even better shape. You do know your state is one of the [largest](http://taxfoundation.org/article/federal-spending-received-dollar-taxes-paid-state-2005) [net](http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union) [recipients](http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/is-your-state-a-net-giver-or-taker-of-federal-taxes/) of federal spending, right? Louisiana is running a surplus because its budget is being _propped up_ by the feds. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/88 "2012-11-16T15:28:36Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > Unlike the FedGov (LOL I’M AN IDIOT!), Louisiana had a $130m surplus last year ([Politics | News from The Advocate](http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/louisiana_expected_to_see_130.html)) as opposed to the US’s ~$1 trillion deficit. If we were to keep the oil reserves that are reasonably close to us (the FedGov considers anything more than 4 miles away from our coast to be national waters, despite drilling in those areas having an effect on the LA environment), we would be in even better shape. You forget the share of the national deficit that rightfully belongs to Louisiana. We can calculate it however you like, but a straight 2% would have been something like a $20B deficit - so much for your surplus. Oh, and you get your share of the national debt too - good luck paying that one off in LABucks. And if you think the remaining states are going to just let you keep all that oil, or somehow renegotiate the drilling leases, you’ve got another think coming. What, that’s not fair? Well when you build a Navy we can discuss it. This is a funny thread though, good job on that. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/89 "2012-11-16T15:32:09Z")
There are no legitimate petitions, signed solely or even in the majority by people in the states in question. No legitimate secession movement would begin or end with a [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) petition. No state legislature or governor is even floating the issue. The issue of secession was settled by both the Civil War and by the Supreme Court case of Texas v White (1869). (unilateral secession was not permitted saying that the union between a state (Texas in the case before the bar) “was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.”) Hence this is not a legitimate issue or even “news story”. It is a bunch of idiots trying to make one out of whole cloth. Hence my signature on [this petition](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/90 "2012-11-16T15:34:21Z")
I guess I was wrong, and the OP does want to focus on the current (bogus) efforts to float the secession idea. I hereby secede from this thread! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/91 "2012-11-16T15:36:03Z")
Splitter! ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/92 "2012-11-16T15:36:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Louisiana is running a surplus because its budget is being _propped up_ by the feds. And we’re only being “propped up” because we’re getting ass fucked by the FedGov on our oil. Do you think that any place you can walk to within an hour doesn’t affect you? The FedGov thinks so. And, while I wouldn’t expect LA to fuck over the rest of the US like the US has fucked us, if we wanted to, we could shut off the primary manner of trading with the Midwest (the MS River). ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/93 "2012-11-16T15:39:22Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You forget the share of the national deficit that rightfully belongs to Louisiana. We can calculate it however you like, but a straight 2% would have been something like a $20B deficit - so much for your surplus. Let us have our oil and we’ll pay that off quickly. > [@](#): > > Oh, and you get your share of the national debt too - good luck paying that one off in LABucks. HAHAHA GOOD ONE! As if the US’s current currency is so incredibly valuable. > [@](#): > > And if you think the remaining states are going to just let you keep all that oil, or somehow renegotiate the drilling leases, you’ve got another think coming. What, that’s not fair? Well when you build a Navy we can discuss it. You’ve essentially just said “What, you think you can keep your television? You’ve got another ‘think’ coming. What, that’s not fair? Well when you get a gun we can discuss it.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/94 "2012-11-16T15:39:41Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > And your post was a pretty embarrassing display of grammar. > [@BabaBooey](#): > > What the fuck does this have to do with my OP? > [@BabaBooey](#): > > What saddens me the most is the hypocrisy of all of you. **BabaBooey** , you need to tone down the hostility here. You would also be well-served to try and confine your commentary to secession-related topics rather than broader commentary about the state of the government and other issues. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > No such thing as a peaceful secession. Insults are not allowed in Great Debates (and you did misunderstand his post). Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/95 "2012-11-16T15:40:01Z")
What makes you think you’d get to keep _any_ of those oil revenues once you’re the People’s Republic of Spicy Food, or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/96 "2012-11-16T15:41:20Z")
Cajunistan ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/97 "2012-11-16T15:41:21Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > Which I found both saddening and terrifying. > > It would be exactly as it is now socially with (probably) the exception of abortion. Unlike the FedGov (LOL I’M AN IDIOT!), Louisiana had a $130m surplus last year ([Politics | News from The Advocate](http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/louisiana_expected_to_see_130.html)) as opposed to the US’s ~$1 trillion deficit. If we were to keep the oil reserves that are reasonably close to us (the FedGov considers anything more than 4 miles away from our coast to be national waters, despite drilling in those areas having an effect on the LA environment), we would be in even better shape. I suggest you actually read the damn article you cite. It does not say what you say it says. The 130M is NOT a surplus. The 130M is simply more _revenue_ than what they expected. The article explicitly states: “But the additional cash, which comes from higher-than-anticipated corporate tax revenue, may not help the state’s current budget woes.” In other words, the state thought they would have X tax revenue, but they wound up with X+130M this year. Whoop de doo. The BUDGET is 25.6 BILLION. It’s all in the terribly formatted article you are citing. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/98 "2012-11-16T15:41:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **BabaBooey** , you need to tone down the hostility here. You would also be well-served to try and confine your commentary to secession-related topics rather than broader commentary about the state of the government and other issues. > > Insults are not allowed in Great Debates (and you did misunderstand his post). Don’t do this again. Are you fucking serious? Someone in this thread said he would be happy to join the military and kill me and my fellow LA citizens if we were to secede, and I’m the one that needs to tone it down? ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/99 "2012-11-16T15:41:54Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It’s the ‘I’m going to Canada if we lose’ for people who don’t want to go to Canada. Team Republican are ripping off Alec Baldwin on a larger scale! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174/100 "2012-11-16T15:41:58Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > If you haven’t noticed, the Gulf Coast has ~1.5 metric fucktons of oil that the rest of the country is reliant upon. It doesn’t work like that. There is a global market for oil. Say the Gulf Coast states secede and take their oil with them. They still have to sell it _somewhere_, and that would add to the world’s supply of oil in the same way it does when they sell it now. So supply would be unchanged, and there’s no reason to believe demand would be affected, either. So the rest of the U.S. might not buy the same set of barrels of oil, but we’d buy about the same amount and at about the same price, whether or not the Gulf Coast states seceded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hostility-towards-states-that-want-to-secede/641174.md?page=6)