# Why the idea that fiscal conservatives hate poor people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872 "2010-02-06T01:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872/321 "2010-03-01T03:06:36Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If you can come up with a solution to the [45,000 deaths](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58G6W520090917) every year from lack of health coverage that _doesn’t_ involve government, I’d be very interested to hear it. You are forgetting several parts of the equation. Government action involves taxation, which has other negative effects. Government action also has more direct effects with respect to the health insurance of people that already have it (80% of which are perfectly happy with their coverage). Also, if you propose a change from the status quo, the burden is on you to prove that it is better. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872/322 "2010-03-01T03:22:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, if you propose a change from the status quo, the burden is on you to prove that it is better. Serious question: Is it possible for any evidence I show you to change your mind? Your statement in an earlier thread denying the existence of objective reality makes me wary of posting a bunch of cites if they’re just going to be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872/323 "2010-03-01T03:56:34Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Serious question: Is it possible for any evidence I show you to change your mind? Your statement in an earlier thread denying the existence of objective reality makes me wary of posting a bunch of cites if they’re just going to be ignored. Bring it. I’ll consider anything. Like I said, the burden is on you, so I’ll consider anything to see if you’ve satisfied that burden. Just make sure you consider all parts of the equation. My posts about the nonexistence of objective reality are just meant to get at the idea that everyone filters facts through their beliefs. Therefore, objective reality may as well not exist because what people consider important is only objective reality after it has been filtered through their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872/324 "2010-03-01T04:13:04Z")
Ok, here’s a [cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/opinion/11krugman.html) from Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman. It’s an op/ed, but he’s throwing out some real numbers here: > [@Paul Krugman](#): > > But the story you hear all the time — of a stagnant economy in which high taxes and generous social benefits have undermined incentives, stalling growth and innovation — bears little resemblance to the surprisingly positive facts. The real lesson from Europe is actually the opposite of what conservatives claim: Europe is an economic success, and that success shows that social democracy works. > > [snipped for brevity] > > Since 1980, per capita real G.D.P. — which is what matters for living standards — has risen at about the same rate in America and in the E.U. 15: 1.95 percent a year here; 1.83 percent there [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-idea-that-fiscal-conservatives-hate-poor-people/527872.md?page=16)