# Why The Incessant harping On the Crusades? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823 "2015-12-08T15:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/21 "2015-12-08T17:40:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Spanish economy is pretty terrible right now. Some foreign investment would be nice. There was foreign investment [from 711-1492](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/22 "2015-12-08T17:43:13Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Uh the news? The internet? > > The voices in my head don’t talk about this stuff you know. Whether that is true or not depends entirely on what you provide to back up your claim, you know. This isn’t a Trump rally, where you can say any damn thing that pops into your mind and the crowd shouts back “Yeh!! What he said!!!” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/23 "2015-12-08T17:44:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And like the OP who ran off, you _still_ haven’t provided any evidence to support the premise of this thread. > Got any? What, that some muslims bitch about the crusades? Well to be fair to most muslims its more accurate to say SOME “leaders” in the muslim community bitch about it. And that spreads around. Seriously, this issue is self defining. If SOMEBODY wasn’t bitching about the crusades you guys would be going “what the fuck are talking about, whats this crusade thing of which you speak”? The very fact you aren’t doing that is proof somebody is. And I doubt your sources are a bunch of christians talking about how we kicked the muslims asses way back when. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/24 "2015-12-08T17:45:40Z")
Why are we still harping on that Jews killed Jesus thing? It was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/25 "2015-12-08T17:46:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Spanish economy is pretty terrible right now. Some foreign investment would be nice. Now that was funny. Maybe Greece is looking to invest? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/26 "2015-12-08T17:46:55Z")
The Crusades’ damage to the Arab world was insignificant compared to the Mongols. If the Crusades screwed up anyone’s civilization, it was the Byzantine Empire, which the Muslim world should be grateful for softening it up for the kill. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/27 "2015-12-08T17:47:52Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > What, that some muslims bitch about the crusades? Well to be fair to most muslims its more accurate to say SOME “leaders” in the muslim community bitch about it. And that spreads around. > > Seriously, this issue is self defining. If SOMEBODY wasn’t bitching about the crusades you guys would be going “what the fuck are talking about, whats this crusade thing of which you speak”? > > The very fact you aren’t doing that is proof somebody is. And I doubt your sources are a bunch of christians talking about how we kicked the muslims asses way back when. Well, no cites yet…but you’ve got those goalposts dancing a dandy little jig, I have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/28 "2015-12-08T17:50:06Z")
More and more, it looks like it was the OP that made the smart move here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/29 "2015-12-08T17:55:30Z")
Uhh, maybe the OP isn’t a looser but has a real a life and a real job and can’t post to the Dope more than in the morning and evening. When he hasn’t come back in a day or two maybe you can do your celebration dance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/30 "2015-12-08T17:55:56Z")
Was this a recent talking point spewed by a right-wing pundit? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/31 "2015-12-08T17:57:14Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Uhh, maybe the OP isn’t a looser but has a real a life and a real job and can’t post to the Dope more than in the morning and evening. Don’t touch the irony, son-it’ll burn ya. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/32 "2015-12-08T18:03:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Don’t touch the irony, son-it’ll burn ya. I got there before you (I got there when I made the post). Of course you are too smarter by half to get that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/33 "2015-12-08T18:06:20Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Seriously, this issue is self defining. If SOMEBODY wasn’t bitching about the crusades you guys would be going “what the fuck are talking about, whats this crusade thing of which you speak”? > > The very fact you aren’t doing that is proof somebody is. And I doubt your sources are a bunch of christians talking about how we kicked the muslims asses way back when. Yes, because our only sources for historical events are contemporary people complaining about them. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/34 "2015-12-08T18:09:05Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I got there before you (I got there when I made the post). Of course you are too smarter by half to get that. That’s sweet. Gonna support this thread with some cites…or are we still relying on those voices you hear? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/35 "2015-12-08T18:11:19Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Uhh, maybe the OP isn’t a looser but has a real a life and a real job and can’t post to the Dope more than in the morning and evening. > > When he hasn’t come back in a day or two maybe you can do your celebration dance. Looser than what? Just supply some links to some recent “harping.” (“Harping” sounds kinda Irish–my people have a tradition of “forgive & forget.”!) A local Greek Orthodox church has an annual Greek Festival. Lovely food, music, etc. The tour of their lovely church includes a pamphlet explaining their religion. They are still not over the [Fourth Crusad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade)e (1202-1204) during which Crusaders sacked the city of Constantinople. > [@](#): > > The prominent medievalist Steven Runciman, wrote in 1954: “There was never a greater crime against humanity than the Fourth Crusade.”… > > Constantinople was considered as a bastion of Christianity that defended Europe from the advancing forces of Islam, and the Fourth Crusade’s sack of the city dealt an irreparable blow to this eastern bulwark. Although the Greeks retook Constantinople after 57 years of Latin rule, the Byzantine Empire had been crippled by the Fourth Crusade. Reduced to Constantinople, north-western Anatolia, and a portion of the southern Balkans, the empire fell to the Ottoman Turks who captured the city in 1453. No, the Greeks aren’t “over it.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/36 "2015-12-08T18:15:25Z")
I think it’s just an easy and unimaginative metaphor, something that everyone can understand, the West = Crusaders = bad. Personally I always wondered why they don’t spit the same vitriol against the Mongols, who committed atrocities on even greater scale than the Crusader’s massacre in Jerusalem when they sacked Baghdad, rolling the Caliph in a carpet and trampling him to death and leaving a trail of devastation the effects of which were felt for centuries. In a GQ thread about it was posited that the likely explanation is that some Mongols eventually at least converted to Islam, whereas ‘the west’ is still Christian. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/37 "2015-12-08T18:19:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s sweet. > Gonna support this thread with some cites…or are we still relying on those voices you hear? Okay. I’ll say this. As God as my witness (I thought turkeys could fly also) WHEN I typed that I knew I was lumping my loser over posting behind with yours. I’ll throw in my soul and everybody I ever gave even half a rats ass soul to burn in eternity if I am lying about that. Of course, YOU think you are more clever and caught me out or something. Now a REAL doper would have made fun of themselves and me in some clever statement of some sort. But alas you failed to seize such an opportunity. I gave you nice setup and you screwed the pooch. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/38 "2015-12-08T18:21:14Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I think it’s just an easy and unimaginative metaphor, something that everyone can understand, the West = Crusaders = bad. > > Personally I always wondered why they don’t spit the same vitriol against the Mongols, who committed atrocities on even greater scale than the Crusader’s massacre in Jerusalem when they sacked Baghdad, rolling the Caliph in a carpet and trampling him to death and leaving a trail of devastation the effects of which were felt for centuries. In a GQ thread about it was posited that the likely explanation is that some Mongols eventually at least converted to Islam, whereas ‘the west’ is still Christian. As of yet, those who say that this incessant harping is going on have yet to show that it is even happening at all, let alone at the volume suggested by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/39 "2015-12-08T18:23:09Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I think it’s just an easy and unimaginative metaphor, something that everyone can understand, the West = Crusaders = bad. > > Personally I always wondered why they don’t spit the same vitriol against the Mongols, who committed atrocities on even greater scale than the Crusader’s massacre in Jerusalem when they sacked Baghdad, rolling the Caliph in a carpet and trampling him to death and leaving a trail of devastation the effects of which were felt for centuries. In a GQ thread about it was posited that the likely explanation is that some Mongols eventually at least converted to Islam, whereas ‘the west’ is still Christian. Good point. To simplify the point I’d say the west is still the “west” and still “christian” but when it comes to the moguls, who self identifies as “monguls”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/40 "2015-12-08T18:24:13Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Okay. > > I’ll say this. > > As God as my witness (I thought turkeys could fly also) WHEN I typed that I knew I was lumping my loser over posting behind with yours. I’ll throw in my soul and everybody I ever gave even half a rats ass soul to burn in eternity if I am lying about that. > > Of course, YOU think you are more clever and caught me out or something. > > Now a REAL doper would have made fun of themselves and me in some clever statement of some sort. But alas you failed to seize such an opportunity. > > I gave you nice setup and you screwed the pooch. Don’t give a flying fuck and/or a rat’s ass about your hand-waving and goal-post shifting anymore. Do you have any evidence to back up the OP’s and your claim, or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=3)