# Why The Incessant harping On the Crusades? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823 "2015-12-08T15:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/61 "2015-12-08T19:10:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Iggy** , I’m not seeing any “muslim scholars” in there. > > I need something other than your assertion that you “heard about the Crusades a lot more than you should,” yes. It would be better if you provided a citation that “muslim scholars” are doing it, since that is the claim you were defending even if it wasn’t yours. Well, define “muslim scholars” for starters. And to REPEAT myself. I did NOT defend the exact claims of the OP. For one, they aren’t exactly defendable because definitions dude/bro. I DID offer an explanation of why somebody somewhere might buy into that idea. Which is stuff that happened in the past is why my “now” sucks. Which is common as dirt when it comes to why people dredge up that past excuse the present. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/62 "2015-12-08T19:12:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So, in other words Muslims. Or at least the Muslims that are causing problems. > > PS. I am glad some other posters here are actually giving good info and are not engaged in some sort of pissing contest. > > Double PS. Obama said it. That might be good enough for me. Somebody else says someone said something sometime, somewhere, and that’s good enough for you. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/63 "2015-12-08T19:20:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, define “muslim scholars” for starters. Feel free to pick any definition _you_ like and support it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/64 "2015-12-08T19:21:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Somebody else says someone said something sometime, somewhere, and that’s good enough for you. > > Pathetic. The OP said it. How is that cite for you. Game. Set. Match. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/65 "2015-12-08T19:21:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The Mongols have stopped this type of behavior. I guess some believe the “West” has not. There were Mongolian forces present in the recent Afghan conflict, though fortunately they’ve moved on a bit from the 13th Century. > [@billfish678](#): > > Good point. > > To simplify the point I’d say the west is still the “west” and still “christian” but when it comes to the moguls, who self identifies as “monguls”? The citizens of Mongolia? They aren’t exactly [shy](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/DschingisMongoliaStatue.JPG/800px-DschingisMongoliaStatue.JPG) about their conquering past. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which "they"s are _you_ referring to? Give us the names of Muslim scholars that are harping about the Crusades that you think should also be harping about the Mongols. Dunno if you saw my reply to your other post or not, didn’t see this one when I made it, hopefully it’s clear which “they” I was referring to, namely the propagandists of ISIS and the like, persons who you and I would not consider “muslim scholars”, though they love to call themselves that. As to the why a bit more pertinent information on the ISIS front, namely the importance of [Dabiq](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/oct/10/islamic-state-dabiq-important-not-end-of-the-world);\* IS named its English-language propaganda magazine after the town. It frequently quotes the deceased founder of al-Qaeda in Iraq, the precursor of IS, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, forecasting that the “spark” lit by the group in Iraq will “intensify until it burns the crusader armies in Dabiq”.\* ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/66 "2015-12-08T19:23:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Feel free to pick any definition _you_ like and support it. No. You. Though at this point it seems pretty clear you aren’t interested in having a real conversation. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/67 "2015-12-08T19:26:13Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > There were Mongolian forces present in the recent Afghan conflict, though fortunately they’ve moved on a bit from the 13th Century. > > .\* I don’t know if that’s funny because its an understatement or that it is closer to the truth than one would hope. Either way a golf clap. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/68 "2015-12-08T19:29:31Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Though at this point it seems pretty clear you aren’t interested in having a real conversation. 😃 I feel quite happy to leave that to the peanut gallery to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/69 "2015-12-08T19:30:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Somebody else says someone said something sometime, somewhere, and that’s good enough for you. > > Pathetic. > [@billfish678](#): > > The OP said it. > > How is that cite for you. > > Game. Set. Match. Enough, both of you. Drop the sniping at one another, or take it to the Pit. No more of it in here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/70 "2015-12-08T19:33:36Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/71 "2015-12-08T19:44:47Z")
Well he may or may not be a Muslim depending to what conspiracy theorist you speak with ;), but Obama brought up the Crusades at the National Prayer Breakfast speech he gave, I mean lots of religious people do stupid shit in the name of their god, but I still thought it was kind of bizarre to bring up the Crusades, it just seemed to me like an almost trivializing of Muslim violence like oh ok we Christians did it too so there! In all honesty any time I hear any Muslim bring up the Crusades, religious fanatic or otherwise, it seems more like they’re pissed they got their asses handed to them than anything else. Just to put it out there I think all religions are ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/72 "2015-12-08T19:48:18Z")
Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/73 "2015-12-08T19:49:04Z")
> [@pool](#): > > In all honesty any time I hear any Muslim bring up the Crusades, religious fanatic or otherwise, it seems more like they’re pissed they got their asses handed to them than anything else. [Say](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hattin)[what](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%281187%29#Aftermath)[?!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Acre_%281291%29) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/74 "2015-12-08T19:49:53Z")
But how often do you hear Muslims bring up the Crusades? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/75 "2015-12-08T19:53:39Z")
Dang you schooled me, I really thought the Christians won the crusades, damn my Eurocentric education! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/76 "2015-12-08T20:05:55Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I think it’s just an easy and unimaginative metaphor, something that everyone can understand, the West = Crusaders = bad. > > Personally I always wondered why they don’t spit the same vitriol against the Mongols, who committed atrocities on even greater scale than the Crusader’s massacre in Jerusalem when they sacked Baghdad, rolling the Caliph in a carpet and trampling him to death and leaving a trail of devastation the effects of which were felt for centuries. In a GQ thread about it was posited that the likely explanation is that some Mongols eventually at least converted to Islam, whereas ‘the west’ is still Christian. Perhaps because the decendents of the Khan aren’t currently meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern Muslims, so there is no need to remind the world what atrocities they were once capable of and might presumably do again? Personally, the last time I remember a Muslim outcry over the Crusades was over a decade ago when W Bush compared the War on Terror to the Crusades and everyone (Muslim and otherwise) lambasted him over his terrible word choice. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/77 "2015-12-08T20:13:28Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Why do muslim scholars endlessly whine about the Crusades? I find it quite bizarre, because: > -the Crusades took place hundreds of years ago, the early ones almost 1000 years ago > **-the Crusaders were reacting to a muslim/islamist invasion from Arabia (the Crusdaers had just as much right to the area as the arabs did)** > -atrocities were committed by both sides > Plus, mohammed never said that Jerusalem was anyplace special-his “holy” city was mecca. > So why the endless whining about this long-in-the past events? The bolded parts are not, so far as I’m remembering correctly, strictly correct. The Eastern Roman Emperor, in Constantinople, wrote to several European kings asking for military help against invading Turks. Mail and transportation being as slow as it was, by the time anyone came, the invasion was over. And the folks that came weren’t kings with armies, they were, in the eyes of Constantinople, rabble. From there, things devolved. The Arab and other local populations (in Jerusalem, not Constantinople) were not invading. They’d been there for centuries. There’s a twenty episode series (Crusades) written by Terry Jones that is a joy to watch. I recommend it highly. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/78 "2015-12-08T20:15:47Z")
The OP might have been confused about the reason ISIS calls their enemies “crusaders.” It’s not that Muslims are still bearing crosses (hehe) over what happened a thousand years ago, but it’s just that the term “crusaders” has long been used to identify Western powers they fought in past wars, much like the English may still refer to Germans as “Fritz.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/79 "2015-12-08T20:35:20Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > The OP might have been confused about the reason ISIS calls their enemies “crusaders.” It’s not that Muslims are still bearing crosses (hehe) over what happened a thousand years ago, but it’s just that the term “crusaders” has long been used to identify Western powers they fought in past wars, much like the English may still refer to Germans as “Fritz.” Good point. It could well be that often when the C word is brought up, it IS more about “they attacked us before and they will attack us again” than “hey they attacked us a long time ago and we are still pissed about it”. Though, IMO I think the second part is not a trivial part. Secondary perhaps, depending on who is doing the complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/80 "2015-12-08T20:57:47Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Perhaps because the decendents of the Khan aren’t currently meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern Muslims, so there is no need to remind the world what atrocities they were once capable of and might presumably do again? Well it’s true, they haven’t bothered them since. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=5)