# Why The Incessant harping On the Crusades? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823 "2015-12-08T15:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![thoughtCrimes70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@thoughtCrimes70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thoughtCrimes70)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/101 "2015-12-09T18:25:41Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > This is completely ignorant nonsense. It was the Western europeans attacking, not the muslims and the greatest extent of the central islamic empire is not in any way effected by the crusades. > > the gross ignorance of the americans about any history outside of a handful of wars they like to make movies about is truly impressive, as is the extremely badly informed analogies they draw off of their action movie history knowledge. > > Why? > > The historian spoke of the crusades and the holy lands. the orthodox christians were the majority of the population and the Latins were very happy to oppress and deny them their access for being the wrong kind of christians. The idea that the Latin Roman Crusades were really for all christians is a laughable piece of hypocrisy to the arabic or the aramaic speaking orthodox. We do not even need to look to the greek speakers on the island of Cyprus or elsewhere. The statements of the president Obama are not less accurate than the supposed critic who glosses over these things for a unifying narrative. You make a great argument against multiculturalism. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/102 "2015-12-09T18:53:18Z")
There is not one thing in what I wrote that has a relationship to “multi-culturalism” but since you write about ‘white’ being guided, we know the game played. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/103 "2015-12-09T19:10:32Z")
> [@thoughtCrimes70](#): > > You make a great argument against multiculturalism. I agree. The fuck? ---
**Author:** ![thoughtCrimes70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@thoughtCrimes70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thoughtCrimes70)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/104 "2015-12-09T21:57:45Z")
Multiculturalism is contrary to normal evolutionary adaptive tendencies. Only whites advocate this type of social abstraction. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/105 "2015-12-09T22:16:04Z")
> [@thoughtCrimes70](#): > > You make a great argument against multiculturalism. I agree. > [@thoughtCrimes70](#): > > Multiculturalism is contrary to normal evolutionary adaptive tendencies. Only whites advocate this type of social abstraction. Whatever this is meant to be, it does not appear to be relevant to the topic of the thread. Please don’t continue this hijack. ---
**Author:** ![thoughtCrimes70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@thoughtCrimes70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thoughtCrimes70)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/106 "2015-12-09T23:16:11Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Whatever this is meant to be, it does not appear to be relevant to the topic of the thread. Please don’t continue this hijack. We don’t need any neo-Puritan, moral arbiters deciding what is appropriate to discuss here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/107 "2015-12-10T00:00:51Z")
> [@thoughtCrimes70](#): > > We don’t need any neo-Puritan, moral arbiters deciding what is appropriate to discuss here. It is possible that you are here (I note your join date) to commit suicide-by-mod, but on the chance that you are not… Asimovian is one of the moderators here at the SD, and they try to keep conversations both on-topic and civil (except in the Pit, and even there we have rules). I would recommend you read said rules in the appropriate pinned thread at the top of each section of this message board. It may help you in your stay here, or at least point you to the right area for your opinions. If, however, you are here for less than honorable purposes, well, that be on your head. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/108 "2015-12-10T00:14:47Z")
Its ironic Christians and the Pope’s armies ultimately were defeated over the course of the Crusades. Christian forces won some battles and held territory but Muslim forces regained it eventually. The Ottoman Empire ruled for many centuries. [There were other Muslim empires too.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_empires_and_dynasties) Given their success, its strange Muslims hold a grudge about the Crusades today. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/109 "2015-12-10T00:18:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Given their success, its strange Muslims hold a grudge about the Crusades today. And yet again, outside of a few fanatical groups, that has not been shown to be true. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/110 "2015-12-10T00:26:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If all the Muslims in the world had been wiped out in 1776 I doubt I’d have heard about the crusades anymore once I left college, because I doubt many of the southern baptists around here would be reminding me of it. Yeah, but the Catholics would still be gloating! In Catholic schools in the sixties I heard more about the Crusades than did kids in public schools. I kinda understand any Mideastern interest. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/111 "2015-12-10T00:45:04Z")
> [@thoughtCrimes70](#): > > We don’t need any neo-Puritan, moral arbiters deciding what is appropriate to discuss here. We may not _need_ them, but that’s how this message board is run, by gum! You’ve been issued a warning for failure to follow moderator instructions. Accruing warnings can lead to a revocation of your posting privileges. The next time you have an issue with the board’s moderation, start a thread in the About This Message Board forum. Don’t do it in the thread in which you’re receiving the note or warning, or anywhere other than in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/112 "2015-12-10T00:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > (“Harping” sounds kinda Irish–my people have a tradition of “forgive & forget.”!) How’s that working in Ulster? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/113 "2015-12-10T02:15:10Z")
Has anyone mentioned W’s use of the word ‘Crusade’ to refer to US attacks on Afghanistan and/or Iraq? That colossal screw-up certainly gave the Salafists(aka Wahhabis) a huge propaganda edge. I put it above the boost _Birth of a Nation_’s contribution to the Klan. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/114 "2015-12-10T18:58:52Z")
This is a bit off topic, but… There is a narrative out there that Islam is somehow more barbaric and backward than all other religions. A natural counter to that argument is the crusades. If Christianity is so much more evolved and civilized, how did the crusades happen? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/115 "2015-12-10T19:15:23Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > This is a bit off topic, but… > > There is a narrative out there that Islam is somehow more barbaric and backward than all other religions. > > A natural counter to that argument is the crusades. If Christianity is so much more evolved and civilized, how did the crusades happen? Perhaps a new thread on that subject could be started? ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/116 "2015-12-10T21:37:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps a new thread on that subject could be started? Not interested in going down that rabbit hole, but you’re more than welcome to! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/117 "2015-12-11T00:59:16Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > This is a bit off topic, but… > > There is a narrative out there that Islam is somehow more barbaric and backward than all other religions. > > A natural counter to that argument is the crusades. If Christianity is so much more evolved and civilized, how did the crusades happen? They happened 700 years ago. Christianity evolved and moved forward. Radical Muslims are beheading people today. Throwing gays off rooftops. Stoning adulterers. Fanatical as he was, Jerry Falwell never beheaded anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/118 "2015-12-11T02:39:53Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What? > That is also nonsense. > In the era of the crusades this is ahistorical and has not any sense, the Ayyubids of SalahEddine - which the Islamic scholarship has not been shy of at all - were of the Kurdish origin. Well, I used “Arabic” advisedly, since that’s what the sources I’ve seen referred to. You shifted to “Islamic” more generally, and that may indeed have a different answer. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/119 "2015-12-11T15:32:48Z")
For those who do not live in a Western society, in these (America especially) the word ‘Crusades’ simply means \*any \*war, past or present, that is fought totally on religious grounds. IOW people who devote their entire lives, their families, villages, cities, whole societies etc. to committing acts of violence against another group of people simply because they don’t believe in their version of Santa Claus. We in America, correctly and proudly, look down our noses at such behavior as being racist, hate-filled, uncivilized, idiotic and barbaric. I remember growing up in the 70s in the US and nobody, _nobody could understand ‘the troubles’, why such violence was happening in Ireland and the UK simply because one side was Catholic and the other not. It’s the 20[sup]th[/sup] (now the 21[sup]st[/sup]) freakin’ century!_ ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823/120 "2015-12-11T18:19:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They happened 700 years ago. Christianity evolved and moved forward. Radical Muslims are beheading people today. Throwing gays off rooftops. Stoning adulterers. > > Fanatical as he was, Jerry Falwell never beheaded anybody. Agreed. But, it’s still the same word of God demanding the same sacrifices and actions. If the all-knowing word of God him/herself can justify the crusades, how can Christians say they’re any better than today’s Muslims calling for Jihad? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-incessant-harping-on-the-crusades/739823.md?page=7)