# Why the left alienates voters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073 "2004-11-04T22:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/41 "2004-11-05T05:15:35Z")
You right wingers have your own nutjobs too. What about those weirdos who hang around outside abortion clinics with signs of bloody fetuses screaming at women who come in and out? Who do you think they voted for? Hint: Not Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/42 "2004-11-05T05:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Yawn. So the Democrats embrace left wing nuts while the Republicans don’t embrace right wing nuts. [QUOTE] I’ve never been embraced. Even when I put on a clean sirt and used deodorant. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/43 "2004-11-05T05:30:59Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > …embraced. Even when I put on a clean sirt and used deodorant. 😛 Isn’t anybody going to tell him? I haven’t got the heart… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/44 "2004-11-05T05:36:16Z")
Maybe he doesn’t have a best friend? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/45 "2004-11-05T05:46:00Z")
I looked at those pictures. You know what I saw? I saw a group of 18-24 year olds for the most part, pissed off. They had just been ass-whupped by the Republicans and they were venting. Ugly things were said, but nobody got hurt – no apparent rioting, no apparent violence except perhaps burning an effigy. If you consider that violent. I ask the Repubs around not to be smug and preachy now. On the left we have poured our hearts and souls into something we deeply cared about. We don’t care about it any less now even though we were trounced in the election. In the end, the election was decided by around 2% of the country in near-unprecedented turnouts. That isn’t the left alienating voters. That is the right and the left deeply caring about issues, with the right doing a little better for any number of hundreds of reasons (demographics, large rural voter turnout less of a hassle than urban turnout, better organization through things like churches and such, etc etc etc). If things had gone slightly, slightly differently, we would all be sitting here asking why 90% of Manhattan, the site of the worst terrorist attacks in the country, voted against the president. We would be asking why the right alienates most of urban America and the minorities. Why the Republican party seems only to represent only religious white people. Playing the “I’m better than you because…” game will win you no friends and only serve to increase bitterness. There are youthful, irresponsible, hateful, idiotic people throughout this country. The “God hates fags” crowd is as much of an anathema to us as the “Kill Middle America” crowd is to you. Think carefully about the seeds you sow now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/46 "2004-11-05T05:56:07Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > No kidding. The Left are a bunch of freaks, wierdos and psychopaths. Every time I walked through Union Square there would be a bunch of them there with Stop Bush (Swastika in place of the S in Bush) signs or they would be spouting some Communist manifesto mumbo jumbo. Not to say that all Kerry supporters or Democrats are nut jobs, but for some reason these people align themselves with the Democrats. And a **good** reason, too! :mad: All those signs, however hateful and however crude or crappy they are, are **accurate!** ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/47 "2004-11-05T06:29:45Z")
Getting back to the link in the OP for a minute, **BlueGarden** , did you read the information provided with the photos? Apparently a lot of those signs and photos were from Black Bloq. From your link: > [@](#): > > The Black Bloq folks hate San Francisco’s touchy-feely leftists as much as they hate George Bush. > [@](#): > > **msmith** : Not to say that all Kerry supporters or Democrats are nut jobs… That’s always good to hear. Not everyone who hates George Bush is a leftist. Not all leftists are Democrats. Not all Kerry supporters are Democrats. Not all liberals are Democrats. Not all liberals and conservatives are enemies. Even Eisenhower was a liberal. Open your mind. Educate yourself. Inquire within. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/48 "2004-11-05T07:38:20Z")
(repling to the OP) But it doesn’t - the Dems & Liberals got 49% of the vote. Damn close election. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/49 "2004-11-05T08:23:35Z")
“Fuck Middle America” - He he, that’s pretty good. 😃 I was kinda thinking the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/50 "2004-11-05T10:58:23Z")
These aren’t folks who are alienating the voters. These are people who were alienated by the voters. Many of them were told by eleven states “your civil rights don’t mean squat to us.” They felt betrayed by their countrymen that someone so utterly incompetent could have been elected president. They fear that his future warmongering is going to bring back the draft. A little protest in the streets is no cause for alarm, it’s a perfectly healthy response. ---
**Author:** ![ShockingAlberto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ea924/32.png) [@ShockingAlberto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShockingAlberto)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/51 "2004-11-05T11:34:04Z")
But…but…it’s my first time! ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/52 "2004-11-05T12:53:07Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > The government workers? Technically, President Bush is a “government worker” too. I assume he pays his taxes just like everyone else. 😃 > > Cite? Read Eric Hoffer and George Orwell. Or just use your common sense. It’s obvious to anyone who isn’t a brain-damaged leftie. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/53 "2004-11-05T13:07:48Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Quote: > Add to that , most leftists are intellectual snobs, who despise the working class that they supposedly admire. > Cite? My apologies for the previous post. This is the quote I meant to respond to. It is painfully obvious that there is a very ugly tendency towards intellectual snobbery on the left, and a cite for it isn’t necessary. Blalron’s response was a classic example of an inappropriate demand for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/54 "2004-11-05T13:51:22Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > It is painfully obvious that there is a very ugly tendency towards intellectual snobbery on the left, and a cite for it isn’t necessary. Blalron’s response was a classic example of an inappropriate demand for a cite. ## Why is it inappropriate? Because you can’t back up your assertion? Sure people say it a lot, doesn’t make it true. If it were so painfully obvious you wouldn’t have any trouble citing your claim. Instead you are doing the “I don’t need a cite” dance. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/55 "2004-11-05T14:00:19Z")
> [@BlueGarden](#): > > The pictures speak for themselves. > > [SF anti-Bush Rally](http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/) How do you know he’s not some GOP supporter telling middle America to go eat cake? This is exactly the signs and red flags the GOP holds up towards the disappearing middle class. Tell me, where do I go live when I can’t afford to make it in America anymore? I’ve paid my dues, and society keeps undermining those who have worked hard to make a living. Do you think Bush knows what that’s like? Also, if these are the things that influence your decisions, then you must not be aware of what the issues are and how much is at stake! Did you know “diplomacy” is not in Bush’s dictionary? - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/56 "2004-11-05T14:06:02Z")
A couple of thoughts here. Neither the thread title nor the OP mentions Democrats (it was “the left”), yet several of those attacking the OP used the Republicans as the opposite. Many of those signs showed anarchy symbols, and the Democratic party does _not_ condone anarchy. The opposite, in fact. The Democrats _want_ government structure, control, and protection for the populace, all things the anarchists abhor. My wife did some work for KRON (a San Francisco television station) on election night, and the announcers said that people were threatening to riot no matter who wins. I think it’s safe to say that the Democrats don’t welcome most of the people in those pictures any more than the Republicans welcome their extreme equivalents on the right… [QUOTE=Avumede] Wow, you truly know nothing of the left, do you? The most extreme leftists I’ve seen are not only employable, but tend to be the best at what they do. They aren’t drug addicts, they are either casual users, or just tolerant abstainers. And they are the most social, fun, easygoing people I know. [QUOTE] The most extreme leftists I know are anything **but** fun, easygoing people. They are just as bad as the extreme rightists or any other kind of extremist. I find them single-minded, intolerant, and if they are “the best at what they do,” then what they do must be ranting, whining, and building hatred. I think “fun, easygoing extremist” is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/57 "2004-11-05T14:07:07Z")
DANG! Forgot to preview. The second part of that should have read: > [@Avumede](#): > > Wow, you truly know nothing of the left, do you? The most extreme leftists I’ve seen are not only employable, but tend to be the best at what they do. They aren’t drug addicts, they are either casual users, or just tolerant abstainers. And they are the most social, fun, easygoing people I know. The most extreme leftists I know are anything **but** fun, easygoing people. They are just as bad as the extreme rightists or any other kind of extremist. I find them single-minded, intolerant, and if they are “the best at what they do,” then what they do must be ranting, whining, and building hatred. I think “fun, easygoing extremist” is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/58 "2004-11-05T14:46:30Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > ## Why is it inappropriate? Because you can’t back up your assertion? Sure people say it a lot, doesn’t make it true. If it were so painfully obvious you wouldn’t have any trouble citing your claim. Instead you are doing the “I don’t need a cite” dance. As I said, read Eric Hoffer and George Orwell, or just use your common sense, assuming you have any. Only a fool would demand a cite for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/59 "2004-11-05T15:06:13Z")
So, lets get some sort of calibration here, **Lonesome**. Is intellectual snobbery, as dreadful as it is, worse than lying to start a war? Got any pictures of kids with thier limbs blown off due to liberal’s intellectual snobbery? Those flag-draped coffins they’re unoading…and will continue to unload, since you guys got your mandate…those are the result of lefty intellectual snobbery? Think Mr. Hoffer and Mr. Orwell would agree? Well, its yours now. Congratulations. You had the choice, and you ratified it, gave it your official okey-dokey. Now it belongs to you. Right now, somewhere north of a thousand. What do you think? 2,000? 5,000? 10,000? Of our best and brightest? We tried, you wouldn’t listen. It belongs to you now. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073/60 "2004-11-05T16:19:47Z")
I, too, have a question for **Lonesome Polecat** and I truly don’t mean for it to be in the least pejorative. If it comes out sounding that way, then I apologize. So, here goes nothing. First you say this in regards to another posters political leanings… > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > …It is painfully obvious that there is a very ugly tendency towards intellectual snobbery on the left, and a cite for it isn’t necessary. Blalron’s response was a classic example of an inappropriate demand for a cite. Which had been proceeded by this (bolded emphasis mine)… > [@](#): > > Read Eric Hoffer and George Orwell. Or just use your common sense. It’s obvious to anyone who isn’t a **brain-damaged leftie**. And then finally followed up by this… > [@](#): > > As I said, read Eric Hoffer and George Orwell, or **just use your common sense, assuming you have any. Only a fool would demand a cite for it**. Now, it’s possible that I truly don’t understand your initial observation about there being “a very ugly tendency towards intellectual snobbery on the left.” Especially when juxtaposed against the statements that _you_ made in response to others. Is there a different standard applied to one group rather than another? Am I missing something or does this not come off as exactly the same thing you are deriding? Or is it because it’s justified in return if they do it first? I’m again baffled. Can you help me understand this one point and explain your position more in full? I’d really appreciate more insight than I already have. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-left-alienates-voters/273073.md?page=4)