# Why the mothers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484 "2001-08-01T15:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tabeitha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@Tabeitha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabeitha)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/21 "2001-08-02T01:57:03Z")
When do people become responsible for their own actions? An adult should have the capability do determine if what they are doing is harmful. This knowledge usually comes from life experiences. Some people have real issues from childhood that need to be addressed, so address them. Sure it’s hard, but who said life was easy. For the most part, IMHO placing the blame on the parent allows some people to be selfish and offers the cop-out. (Sure I cheated/lied/whatever on you, but I have commitment/honesty/whatever issues due to a lack of/to much whatever from my mother/father/siblings when I was a child.) Blah, blah, blah. “If your baggage doesn’t fit into an overnight bag leave it at home.” -quote from Bill. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/22 "2001-08-02T02:55:23Z")
I kind of think the “moms as a civilizing force” explanation hits it for me. Not that I necessarily believe that’s true myself, but I do believe that’s the way many people subconsciously think about it. Any Southerners reading this thread? I didn’t pick up (or start using) mom-related blame and shame until I’d spent time in Virginia. It was withering to say “Your mama must be so proud” or “I don’t know how you were raised, but my mama taught me it’s impolite to cut in line.” There seemed to be a special focus on one’s mom there: respecting her, doing her proud, showing you’d been “raised right” by her. Such insults like the ones I just typed were all the more insulting when said to grown people who are (or ought to be) responsible for their own actions. That’s the point, I think, though I can’t get it put into words correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Kiki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kiki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiki)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/23 "2001-08-02T16:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*It’s really very simple - cultural stereotyping. Mama stays home and raises the kids, teaching them right from wrong, etc., while Daddy goes out to work to support the family, interacting with the children only to dispense rewards and punishment. > > Even today, with both parents much more likely to work outside the house, it is still the mother who, on average, spends more time with the kids and takes off from work more often when the kids are sick, etc. > > Sua \*\* Exactly! That’s what I was thinking when I began reading this and you said it better than I could have. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/24 "2001-08-02T17:31:00Z")
So I suppose since in our culture the mother is generally the primary caregiver to a family’s children, if when those children become adults they behave in a socially unacceptable/uncivilized manner it is deemed to be her fault and thus it is ok to insult her. Regardless of whether we know for a fact the mother did a poor job of raising said person. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2001, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/25 "2001-08-03T00:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mornea \* > \*\*So I suppose since in our culture the mother is generally the primary caregiver to a family’s children, if when those children become adults they behave in a socially unacceptable/uncivilized manner it is deemed to be her fault and thus it is ok to insult her. Regardless of whether we know for a fact the mother did a poor job of raising said person. \*\* That’s what stereotyping is all about, baby. You wouldn’t want us to have to educate ourselves when we can make snap judgments, do you? Sua ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2001, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/26 "2001-08-03T14:52:55Z")
I generally think it’s the assumption that the mother is the civilizing force. But another issue that might reinforce the reasons for focusing on a mother is the fact that, on average, people assume every kid at least had a mom in the house. If a woman has a child fathered by a ne’er do well, the guy can bolt and leave the woman to raise the child. Likewise, women tend to be granted custody in divorce more than men (I don’t have the statistics on hand, but I’ll find them if you want them). So if you’re going to single out one person, it’s a better chance that the person lived with a mother, at least. Of course, you could say “Is that the way your _parents_ raised you” and avoid the issue. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2001, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/27 "2001-08-03T15:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SuaSponte_ > That’s what stereotyping is all about, baby. You wouldn’t want us to have to educate ourselves when we can make snap judgments, do you? Naw, who would want that? 🙂 I think this bothers me so much because I love my mother a lot (God rest her soul) and it is really unfair to her, when she did so much to raise me well, to be insulted or thought badly of just because I did something wrong. (If that could ever happen.:D) ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/28 "2001-08-05T03:07:03Z")
The image of mothers as being solely responsible for their children’s character is a Victorian idea. Women were (are?) supposed to be pure and virtuous, while men will behave like beasts unless restrained by women’s influence. The entire purpose of woman’s existence was to be Wife and Mother. (I have a few excellent books from this time period detailing how to be “The Perfect Woman”.) Since mother was such a sterling example of morality, it was her duty to impart this onto her children. “The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world” was a popular sentiment at that time. (Isn’t it still?) Sigmund Freud was and continues to be a strong influence on our thinking in this matter, even though his theories are all either demonstrably false or unfalsifiable. He _did_ outright blame mothers for their children’s problems. Until recently, it was accepted as fact that schizophrenia was due to poor mothering. Any personal problem could be explained having a mother that wasn’t affectionate enough, was too affectionate, didn’t toilet train you properly, and so on. The one good thing I’ll say about Freud is that at least he caused people to realize mental illness is not caused by demons. It’s your mother’s fault. Skinner’s idea that raising children is as simple as training a rat to press a lever didn’t help much. Every mother knows that even if you do everything “right”, kids aren’t rats. (They’re messier, for one thing.) Since it’s impossible to be a perfect parent, we automatically blame ourselves when our kids don’t turn out as we’d wish. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/29 "2001-08-05T04:28:12Z")
What in the world are you talking about mornea? You must have pretty unique, old world, social set because I have rarely, if ever, hear mothers dis-proportionally (vs fathers) blamed for the behavior of their **adult** children except by 70-80 year old grannies or first generation immigrant mother’s in law. I do hear mothers being taken to task for the mis-behavior of **children** more than fathers, but this is mainly a consequence of the mother (usually} having a more direct and immediate influence on children’s everyday behavior than fathers simply due to proximity and time spent with the child, and quite frankly these criticisms are not always entirely undeserved given some things I’ve seen mothers let their little darlings get away with. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/30 "2001-08-05T15:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beelzebubba \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > > \*\*I don’t kick old women, becuase my mom taught me not to. > > \*\* > > You know, I don’t think my mother ever had a word to say on kicking old women… > > ;)\*\* Upon observing a priest bending down to look in a pond in Mount Royal in Montreal, my dad’s mother taught him to kick priests into ponds. Fortunately, he soon stopped listening to her, though not soon enough for the unfortunate priest. Over the years she then became increasingly nasty, to the point that we eventually had to have her put away. On occasion I wished that someone had taught their children to kick old women. ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/31 "2001-08-05T16:37:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*What in the world are you talking about mornea? You must have pretty unique, old world, social set because I have rarely, if ever, hear mothers dis-proportionally (vs fathers) blamed for the behavior of their **adult** children except by 70-80 year old grannies or first generation immigrant mother’s in law. > > \*\* Or Republicans: [http://family.telegraph.co.uk/family/main.jhtml?xml=/family/2001/07/25/fmfem25.xml](http://family.telegraph.co.uk/family/main.jhtml?xml=/family/2001/07/25/fmfem25.xml) I just love the Clinton-bashing- It seems to me that Bill Clinton’s rise to the Presidency was a whole lot tougher than W’s, so no matter what Mrs. Arkansas Project wants to believe, Virginia Kelley didn’t do all that bad a job. JDM ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/32 "2001-08-05T16:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JDM \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > > \*\*What in the world are you talking about mornea? You must have pretty unique, old world, social set because I have rarely, if ever, hear mothers dis-proportionally (vs fathers) blamed for the behavior of their **adult** children except by 70-80 year old grannies or first generation immigrant mother’s in law. > > > > \*\* > > Or Republicans: > [http://family.telegraph.co.uk/family/main.jhtml?xml=/family/2001/07/25/fmfem25.xml](http://family.telegraph.co.uk/family/main.jhtml?xml=/family/2001/07/25/fmfem25.xml) > > I just love the Clinton-bashing- It seems to me that Bill Clinton’s rise to the Presidency was a whole lot tougher than W’s, so no matter what Mrs. Arkansas Project wants to believe, Virginia Kelley didn’t do all that bad a job. JDM \*\* Interesting article, but having read it where does it blame (feminist) mothers for the bad adult behavior of their **adult** children? The only direct quote to your point in the article talks about school children taking guns to school not adults doing adult behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![lucie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed8c4c/32.png) [@lucie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucie)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484/33 "2001-08-05T22:31:48Z")
Reading the OP I am reminded that two of the most common insults directed at men with poor social skills (to put it politely) are “son of a bitch” and “bastard”, both implications of bad, immoral behavior on the part of the mother. I cannot recall one in common usage off the top of my head that indicates poor training received from the father. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-mothers/74484.md?page=1)