# Why the opposition to "smart" guns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867 "2013-01-31T01:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/201 "2013-02-02T04:41:33Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > While I don’t think we really _need_ more gun control regulation (more just enforcement of what we have and closing of a loophole here and there), I do have a question for the gun-rights crowd. > > Let’s say that MiracleTech develops a smart gun device. It costs $5, installation is free at any gun range and takes 5 minutes, it has a 0% failure rate, it works off of bioelectric rhythm so you don’t need any keys or rings, attuning it to someone else (like your spouse) simply requires their presence, your presence, and 60 seconds (de-attunement take 60 seconds as well and does not require the other person, say if you divorce your spouse), and it can be retrofitted into any gun made since the American Revolution. It has no tracking device for the government. > > Please note that it is made by **MiracleTech** and as such is obviously unrealistic at the current time (although who knows 20 years from now). > > A) Would you voluntarily install this on your guns, knowing it prevents a bad guy from using it or your kid from accidentally shooting himself? > > B) Would you be ok with a requirement that all new guns manufactured have this technology? (Please not there is no requirement to add it to guns already owned. In my case, yes to both. The MiracleTech system you are describing has no drawbacks, so of course I’d want to use it myself and to see it widely used. ---
**Author:** ![eno801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@eno801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eno801)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/202 "2013-02-02T04:43:10Z")
“all” the things? Meteorite knocking the gun out my hand? My clown mask which I wore to be that night slipping a bit and the eyeholes not lining up? etc. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/203 "2013-02-02T04:47:38Z")
> [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](#): > > I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Sure, maybe some batteries would need to be replaced, but that’s part of maintenance. I assume there’s other upkeep involved with keeping such an old rifle in firing condition. Actually, you’d be surprised at just how LITTLE is involved in keeping an older firearm in working condition. Keep it dry, keep it lubricated, and (especially if it uses black powder) clean it promptly after each use. That’s pretty much all that is needed. Guns are very durable. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/204 "2013-02-02T04:53:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > All I’m saying is that almost everything old eventually gets replaced by the new, sometimes even if the old still does the job. Whether the new is actually an improvement on the old is always a matter of opinion. See, firearms are an interesting exception to his general rule. The last time a big change occurred that effectively made older weapons obsolete was in the late 19th century, when modern smokeless powder replaced black powder. No one would choose to drive a Model T Ford every day on our modern roads, but plenty of people own and use 100 year old firearms which still work perfectly well. They are in no way obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![eno801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@eno801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eno801)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/205 "2013-02-02T04:55:50Z")
electronics likewise can be very durable,but are much more unpredictable. Like that batch of bad capacitors in the early 2000’s. Problems with perpendicular storage hard drives. Bad firmwares, ECM failures in cars, I could go on. the more complexity you add the more chances of failure. Guns are basically just springs and rods and some steel tubes. that’s why you wait for the first service pack before adopting hence when cops have them thing. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/206 "2013-02-02T05:02:23Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > See, firearms are an interesting exception to his general rule. The last time a big change occurred that effectively made older weapons obsolete was in the late 19th century, when modern smokeless powder replaced black powder. No one would choose to drive a Model T Ford every day on our modern roads, but plenty of people own and use 100 year old firearms which still work perfectly well. They are in no way obsolete. Yes. Some things eventually reach the limits of perfection, given the constraints of physics. Firearms may be one. I’ve got a side by side Spanish twenty gauge shotgun in my safe. English grip, splinter fore end, fast as anything, six pounds and balanced to feel like half of that. I really doubt there’ll ever be a grouse/woodcock gun that’s significantly better than that. And the design is around 100 years old, I think. Knives are another thing that have pretty much reached their practical limits. I’d make a bet that 500 years from know, knives look pretty much like they do know, and are made of the same stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/207 "2013-02-02T05:06:00Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Yes. Some things eventually reach the limits of perfection, given the constraints of physics. Firearms may be one. I’ve got a side by side Spanish twenty gauge shotgun in my safe. English grip, splinter fore end, fast as anything, six pounds and balanced to feel like half of that. I really doubt there’ll ever be a grouse/woodcock gun that’s significantly better than that. And the design is around 100 years old, I think. > > Knives are another thing that have pretty much reached their practical limits. I’d make a bet that 500 years from know, knives look pretty much like they do know, and are made of the same stuff. Not me. If they could make a knife that would cut through turkey like butter, yet not cut through my thumb like margarine, I’d be damn happy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/208 "2013-02-02T05:25:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not me. If they could make a knife that would cut through turkey like butter, yet not cut through my thumb like margarine, I’d be damn happy. 😃 It probably need some sort of electronic sensor that instantly dulls the blade if it approaches human flesh. If this could be done for about $5 and be 100% reliable, would you buy it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/209 "2013-02-02T05:30:23Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > It probably need some sort of electronic sensor that instantly dulls the blade if it approaches human flesh. If this could be done for about $5 and be 100% reliable, would you buy it? I’m such a klutz, if it cost $100 and was 5% reliable I’d buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/210 "2013-02-02T05:31:34Z")
> [@eno801](#): > > You know what makes people less nervous about guns. Actually using one and handling it. Learning how it works. Then you will see that is not some sort of tiger on a leash that might go crazy and attack for no reason. > When I first handled a gun I was nervous and scared as fuck. I took it to the gun class with the stupid ass rope lock in. Carried the ammo in the trunk, gun in the backseat as if the ammo would load itself if l left them too close to each other. I knew it was not logical but the objects actually made me nervous. > After learning more and demystifying them, I knew to respect them, but not fear them. Seriously if people actually handled guns and were required to be versed in safety and how they work it would calm people the fuck down. > Nobody thinks twice driving a car 70 mph down the road a few feet from other cars heading the opposite direction. Imagine bringing someone from the past or some isolated tribe and taking them on the interstate I think they would be nervous the first time too. +1 I learned to use a gun in the Boy Scouts and I have seen the anxiety over guns melt away with a couple of lessons with a firearms instructor and a couple of weekends at the range. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/211 "2013-02-02T09:49:20Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > It probably need some sort of electronic sensor that instantly dulls the blade if it approaches human flesh. If this could be done for about $5 and be 100% reliable, would you buy it? Not a knife but a [table saw](http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/sawstop-worlds-safest-table-saw-in-slow-motion/) that will stop the blade if it hits flesh. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/212 "2013-02-02T10:32:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ll keep giving my personal opinions on matters, if you don’t mind. Or even if you do. I don’t mind. But I am advising you that, your personal view of yourself as pro-gun-rights notwithstanding, your participation in these discussions does not generally appear to most observers as pro-gun-rights. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/213 "2013-02-02T10:38:09Z")
> [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](#): > > I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Sure, maybe some batteries would need to be replaced, but that’s part of maintenance. I assume there’s other upkeep involved with keeping such an old rifle in firing condition. The same maintenance required of any rifle: regular lubrication,cleaning after firing. You have any experience with firearms at all? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/214 "2013-02-02T13:07:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Not a knife but a [table saw](http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/sawstop-worlds-safest-table-saw-in-slow-motion/) that will stop the blade if it hits flesh. That’s pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/215 "2013-02-02T13:37:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t mind. But I am advising you that, your personal view of yourself as pro-gun-rights notwithstanding, your participation in these discussions does not generally appear to most observers as pro-gun-rights. It’s like that guy you know “that’s not racist” but won’t stop using the N-word. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/216 "2013-02-02T15:14:58Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Most likley not. > > I had a car once that locked the doors automatically when I went over 25mph or so. For safety against carjackers, I guess. I found it very annoying - sometimes I didn’t want the doors locked, and if I did, I could lock them myself with the button on the door. > > All recent lawnmowers I’ve purchased have some mechanism on them that shuts off the motor if I release the handle. (I wrap a bungie cord around it.) Gawd. My MIL has a car that does that. Drives me nuts. The ‘Take the hands of the lawn mower and it kills the engine BS’ is much much worse. My Pathfinder has VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) that I thankfully can turn off. It is pretty impressive though. Just not for all situations. The magical gun lock mentioned upthread would be great. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/217 "2013-02-02T15:16:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, the 1% refers to failure rates in the technology, not to deaths at all. Which makes the comparison even further out of fucking whack. Dead kids v the potential that firearm \*might \*malfunction in the exceedingly rare instance that you \*may \*need shoot an intruder. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/218 "2013-02-02T15:55:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t mind. But I am advising you that, your personal view of yourself as pro-gun-rights notwithstanding, your participation in these discussions does not generally appear to most observers as pro-gun-rights. Most observers? I must have missed that poll, **Bricks**. The same 3 or 4 people in every thread making multiple vague accusations, none of whom can seem to find an actual solid anti-gun post from me but “knows a duck when they see one”, don’t seem to qualify as most observers to _me_. I would like “smart” guns to be perfected to the point that gun owners would be satisfied. I would like their use to be voluntary. I would like the 2nd Amendment to be cleaned up, with the annoying “militia” beginning removed. I think Wayne LaPierre is a nutcase rabble-rouser and should shut the hell up. Whenever I state these opinions, the same small group of “duck watchers”, who claim to speak for the rest of the board, drop in to sneer and call me “anti-gun”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/219 "2013-02-02T16:49:22Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > It’s hard for some of us to understand why some of the non-shooters feel like they do. Its the same thing that makes my mother-in law nervous around black people. Mostly, lack of exposure combined with media portrayals that reinforce that apprehension. > [@Kable](#): > > How about making firearm safety courses and self defense a high school elective. Or should we teach safe gun handling in school at a younger age? Maybe combine it with sex-ed? The Colt armories " trained several seminal generations of toolmakers and other machinists, who had great influence in other manufacturing efforts of the next half century." -[Revolver - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver) It might be useful. > [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](#): > > I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Sure, maybe some batteries would need to be replaced, but that’s part of maintenance. I assume there’s other upkeep involved with keeping such an old rifle in firing condition. As long as the gun has no springs under tension (and revolver generally don’t and bolt action rifles like the Enfield don’t), if it is well oiled, it should be able to sit in a box for years and work without a hitch. > [@enipla](#): > > The magical gun lock mentioned upthread would be great. I’d probably use mine to hunt unicorns. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867/220 "2013-02-02T17:04:51Z")
A 1% failure rate is far, far better than the current failure rate. Currently, there is a high rate of “self-defense” or “home protection” guns being used to kill the very people they are supposed to be protecting. That’s not only a failure; it’s a particularly bad form of failure, and the “smart gun” technologies would help to reduce that number. Plus, of course, the question isn’t even about the already-impressively-reliable current technology. The pro-gun faction boycotts manufacturers just for attempting to do R&D on such technology. How do you expect them to get any more reliable, if people fight tooth and nail against any attempt to do so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-opposition-to-smart-guns/648867.md?page=12)