# Why the Pit is necessary **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130 "2005-10-07T01:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/41 "2005-10-07T15:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > … whether excellent folks like **raindog** want them to or not. _{blushing}_ Why, _thank you…_ :dubious: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/42 "2005-10-07T15:53:30Z")
Miller said: > [@](#): > > Not from anybody who counts. Just the usual dainty types who confuse a lack of spine with a higher intellect. > > Oh, hey **raindog** , didn’t see you there! 😕😕 Didn’t see me _where_? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/43 "2005-10-07T16:07:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not from anybody who counts. Just the usual dainty types who confuse a lack of spine with a higher intellect. > > Oh, hey **raindog** , didn’t see you there!.. hehe _The compliments keep rolling in!_ It’s the first time I’ve been called ‘dainty’, but I’m warming to the idea. But while I may be delicate, I am certainly not confused. I would also guess that the folks who I have crossed paths with me here, particularly in GD, would surmise my backbone is fully intact. But then I’ve never asked them… But it is fallacious at best to imply that someone who objects to “c\*nt” as a staple of someone’s [presumably intelligent] lexicon, is somehow ‘dainty’ or confused. But if that’s what you have to offer, go with it. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/44 "2005-10-07T17:36:17Z")
I love the pit and spend most of my SDMB time in it. 😃 I do, however, think they could make it easier for the dainty folk to avoid it (they could allow users to hide it from the main forum page on their screen and exclude it from “New Posts” searches). Of course, that would violate the board policy of never improving any functionality, so that’s out. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/45 "2005-10-07T18:38:33Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > I love the pit and spend most of my SDMB time in it. 😃 > > I do, however, think they could make it easier for the dainty folk to avoid it (they could allow users to hide it from the main forum page on their screen and exclude it from “New Posts” searches). > > Of course, that would violate the board policy of never improving any functionality, so that’s out. :smack: Shhhh Don’t upset the hamsters, I think their tummies are already unsettled. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/46 "2005-10-07T18:53:09Z")
I like that I have the freedom to call someone a fucking tool here if they are being a fucking tool. Sometimes I am in the mood to be a prick in a debate and I come here. Sometimes it’s fun to see what idiotic justification someone will make for hating someone they don’t know like Paris Hilton. Also it’s cool that there is Great Debates where if I am feeling more contemplative, I don’t have to listen to the vitriole. All in all it’s a good system. It’s also a good way to show someone that while the SDMB might contain some of the smartest minds out there, that they simply are not one of them. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/47 "2005-10-07T20:17:50Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > How’d he pull that off without using the word ‘c\*nt’ once? :dubious: It’s been awhile since I read it, but if I recall correctly, he also didn’t use the words: aardvark blastocyte droll elephantine forensics geriatric hallowed impious juried kinky lithe mellifluous neonatal oleaginous prick rhododendron sesquipedalian torrential undulating vestibule waxy xenophobe yurt zymurgy Why is “Cant” the only one that you focus on? Our dear **Scylla** does not shy away from using the word he needs, whether that word is pustule or cocksucker. Arbitrary delimitations on the speaker hurt only the speaker’s ability to communicate: they don’t show any especial wit. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/48 "2005-10-07T20:32:10Z")
**Left Hand of Dorkness said:** > [@](#): > > Why is “C **a** nt” the only one that you focus on? > Daniel (highlight mine) And here I thought _I_ was the dainty one… ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/49 "2005-10-07T20:48:02Z")
I didn’t offer any commentary on **Scylla** ; simply _that_ post/OP. For that matter, I didn’t single out anyone else. My point remains and I won’t belabor it by repeating it. Profanity is best delivered discriminately, with precision and sparingly. That’s not a skill set in plain view here. Quite the contrary. The notion that the absence of rank profanity----like ‘cunt’—are “arbitrary delimitations” that hurt the speakers ability to communicate, is absurd on it’s face. Please tell me I’m being whooshed… ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/50 "2005-10-07T20:55:46Z")
I didn’t offer any commentary on **Scylla** ; simply _that_ post/OP. For that matter, I didn’t single out anyone else. My point remains and I won’t belabor it by repeating it. Profanity is best delivered discriminately, with precision and sparingly. That’s not a skill set in plain view here. Quite the contrary. The notion that the absence of rank profanity----like ‘cunt’—are “arbitrary delimitations” that hurt the speakers ability to communicate, is absurd on it’s face. Please tell me I’m being whooshed… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/51 "2005-10-07T21:02:06Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > I didn’t offer any commentary on **Scylla** ; simply _that_ post/OP. > > For that matter, I didn’t single out anyone else. My point remains and I won’t belabor it by repeating it. Profanity is best delivered discriminately, with precision and sparingly. > > That’s not a skill set in plain view here. Quite the contrary. > > The notion that the absence of rank profanity----like ‘cunt’—are “arbitrary delimitations” that hurt the speakers ability to communicate, is absurd on it’s face. > > Please tell me I’m being whooshed… Shakespeare wasn’t above a cunt joke now and then. If it’s good enough for the bard, it’s good enough for the board. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/52 "2005-10-07T21:06:46Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > The notion that the absence of rank profanity----like ‘cunt’—are “arbitrary delimitations” that hurt the speakers ability to communicate, is absurd on it’s face. Choosing not to use certain words, but to use deliberate misspellings of those words so that the reader knows what word is intended, is a limit on the words available to the author. It certainly appears arbitrary to me. Deny that it’s an arbitrary limit looks absurd on its face to me. There’s nothing high and mighty about refusing to use a class of words. It just means you’ve limited your range of communication. I’m reminded of the vegetarians I’ve heard who claim that a vegetarian diet is _more_ varied than a meat-eater’s diet, since they are propelled to find more interesting dishes. Bull, to be perfectly fucking crude, sh\*t. A meat-eater who loves food is going to eat a greater variety of dishes than the vegetarian who loves food. I don’t eat red meat or poultry, and I love eating interesting foods, and my limits mean that I miss out on a lot of interesting, sumptuous meals. For me to deny that, for me to affect some sort of supercilious superiority and claim that I ate a more varied diet than a meat-eater, would be dishonest and stupid of me. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/53 "2005-10-07T21:16:04Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Shakespeare wasn’t above a cunt joke now and then. If it’s good enough for the bard, it’s good enough for the board. Wow! I didn’t know that… Perhaps you can quote this Shakespearean cunt joke me… We can compare it to some Pit Prose. Maybe my tune will change… In the meantime, are you daring to compare the Pit [qualitatively] with Shakespeare? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/54 "2005-10-07T21:16:23Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Shakespeare wasn’t above a cunt joke now and then. If it’s good enough for the bard, it’s good enough for the board. Wow! I didn’t know that… Perhaps you can quote this Shakespearean cunt joke for me… We can compare it to some Pit Prose. Maybe my tune will change… In the meantime, are you daring to compare the Pit [qualitatively] with Shakespeare? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/55 "2005-10-07T21:20:36Z")
Google is your friend. From Wikipedia (the first link on “Shakespeare Cunt,” thank heavens): > [@](#): > > Although Shakespeare doesn’t use the word explicitly (or with derogatory meaning) in his plays, he still has fun with it, using wordplay to sneak it in. In Act III, Scene 2, of Hamlet, as the castle’s residents are settling in to watch the play-within-the-play, Hamlet asks Ophelia, “Lady, shall I lie in your lap?” Ophelia of course, replies, “No, my lord.” Hamlet, feigning shock, says, “Do you think I meant country matters?” Then, to drive home the point that the accent is definitely on the first syllable of country, Shakespeare has Hamlet say, “That’s a fair thought, to lie between maids’ legs.” Also see Twelfth Night (Act II, Scene V): “There be her very C’s, her U’s, and her T’s: and thus makes she her great P’s.” A related scene occurs in Henry V, when Katherine is learning English, she is appalled at the “gros et impudique” English words “foot” and “gown”, which her English teacher has mispronounced as “coun”. Presumably Shakespeare intends to suggest that she has misheard “foot” as “foutre” (French, “fuck”) and “coun” as “con” (French, “cunt”). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/56 "2005-10-07T21:25:16Z")
Hell, he named one of his plays, _Much Ado about Nothing._ Three guesses what the word “nothing” was slang for, to the Elizabethans. ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/57 "2005-10-08T10:22:18Z")
I think the pit serves a purpose, and I have never thought it should be abolished from the SDMB. What I _have_ always wondered about is that most of us manage to argue and disagree with others face to face, even vehemently, with some kind of civility. If it is possible to do it when you are in the same room with the person you are arguing with, why can’t we do it here in the pit? I assume it is because we don’t have to run into the person we argued with in the grocery store the next day…but since the people here are just as real as the ones who live in the same town with us, it seems to me we should attempt to treat them with the same consideration we show our face to face “adversaries.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/58 "2005-10-08T12:36:00Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Shakespeare wasn’t above a cunt joke now and then. If it’s good enough for the bard, it’s good enough for the board. If ever a sig line there be… ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/59 "2005-10-08T13:38:32Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I’m reminded of the vegetarians I’ve heard who claim that a vegetarian diet is _more_ varied than a meat-eater’s diet, since they are propelled to find more interesting dishes. Bull, to be perfectly fucking crude, sh\*t. A meat-eater who loves food is going to eat a greater variety of dishes than the vegetarian who loves food. Well, it all comes down to personal preference. I’m a vegetarian and I do have a more varied diet than most meat eaters I know. But, then again, I live in the Midwest, which is not known for its adventurous eaters. “Oooh, you got the Triscuits with _rosemary_? Well, I’ll try one but I don’t usually go in for this fancy food!” But, back to topic, I agree that the Pit is necessary. I don’t think we need to apologize for it. Being impassioned and upset isn’t necessarily ignorant. Sure, the upteenth thread on gas-guzzling SUVs or people talking on the cell phone during a movie probably isn’t winning The War on Ignorance As We Know It, but neither is the upteenth thread on Serenity or the zillionth “why do nice girls hate me” snugglefest. This is a community and not every conversation is going to be epic. Let people express themselves, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130/60 "2005-10-08T13:44:30Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Well, it all comes down to personal preference. I’m a vegetarian and I do have a more varied diet than most meat eaters I know. But, then again, I live in the Midwest, which is not known for its adventurous eaters. “Oooh, you got the Triscuits with _rosemary_? Well, I’ll try one but I don’t usually go in for this fancy food!” Oh, sure, definitely some vegetarians have more varied diets than some meat eaters. The carrot soup with cilantro-pepper garnish that my wife made earlier this week was a half-remembered favorite from several years ago, and we eat lots of dishes like that, made from a sagging shelf of cookbooks and from our own weird ideas. My wife, however, eats meat. She’s equally interested in good food as I am, and she eats just about all the vegetarian stuff I eat, PLUS she eats gumbos and pulled pork barbecue and hamburgers. Her diet, because she includes these extra things, is going to be more varied than mine. Similarly, it’s certainly true that some folks who eschew profanity have larger vocabularies than those who embrace profanity. It may even be true that a significant number of cussers have a smaller vocabulary than noncussers. However, it’s by no means a universal rule; and folks who love language who embrace profanity are going to have the richest, most flexible, most powerful vocabulary of all. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-pit-is-necessary/325130.md?page=4)