# Why the recent subject-verb disagreement epidemic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968 "2018-07-15T21:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/21 "2018-07-16T03:19:19Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > They aren’t that, either. They are LEGO bricks. So, which is correct: a pile of brick or a pile of bricks? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/22 "2018-07-16T03:25:52Z")
> [@NetTrekker](#): > > “The police” is plural, so “are” is conventional. If you said “the police department” it would be singular…“is investigating”. Exactly. And Manchester United is a plural noun, so it takes a plural in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/23 "2018-07-16T03:27:07Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > So, which is correct: a pile of brick or a pile of bricks? The plural form depends on the level of specificity. “A pile of brick” but “735 bricks”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/24 "2018-07-16T03:50:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not listening until you agree to drop that ridiculous “s” from “maths.” Tha sin math. Ceart ma-thà. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/25 "2018-07-16T03:52:49Z")
When I saw thread title, I wondered if people had started saying ‘They is a man or a woman but I don’t know (or refuse to tell you) which.’ (I have seen ‘themself’ with increasing frequency, though Google Book’s Ngram Viewer shows that a peak in 1819 has still not be equalled.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/26 "2018-07-16T04:08:31Z")
The other difference is that Americans usually use a definite article with our sports teams: The Browns always lose. The Cleveland Indians sometimes get to the World Series, but then blow it. The Cavs are going to suck without LeBron. But you’d never say “The Manchester United”, or “The Arsenal”, or “The Madrid Real”. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/27 "2018-07-16T04:09:43Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The plural form depends on the level of specificity. “A pile of brick” but “735 bricks”. So, would it be “half a metric ton of brick” but “475 kg of bricks”? (Not just trying to be funny; I’m genuinely interested!) ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/28 "2018-07-16T04:11:36Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Maybe someone can explain why Americans add an ‘s’ to the end of Lego. Lego is a brand name and a bunch of Lego is still Lego, not Legos. They’re trying to get back at the French for wearing a T-shirt and a jean. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/29 "2018-07-16T04:14:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not listening until you agree to drop that ridiculous “s” from “maths.” That’s where they stash the missing “s” from “sport”. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/30 "2018-07-16T04:16:50Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > So, would it be “half a metric ton of brick” but “475 kg of bricks”? > > (Not just trying to be funny; I’m genuinely interested!) Not quite - but it depends on your meaning. Definitely “412 bricks”. But for the rest, it depends if you’re thinking of “brick, the stuff” or “bricks, the items” His house is built from brick. (You didn’t count them and you don’t care how many it took) He brought bricks of gold as payment. (A certain number) He’s a dealer in gold brick. (The stuff; how many is not the point) And so on. I’m going to go and get a bowl of rices now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/31 "2018-07-16T04:23:23Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The plural form depends on the level of specificity. “A pile of brick” but “735 bricks”. But “a pile of bricks” is OK if (in context) it matters, or is identifiable, how many are in the pile. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/32 "2018-07-16T05:00:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The other difference is that Americans usually use a definite article with our sports teams: The Browns always lose. The Cleveland Indians sometimes get to the World Series, but then blow it. The Cavs are going to suck without LeBron. But you’d never say “The Manchester United”, or “The Arsenal”, or “The Madrid Real”. Actually, you do hear “the Arsenal,” but I think more in conversation than in print. Presumably referring back to the actual arsenal that gave the team its name. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/33 "2018-07-16T07:39:17Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Actually, you do hear “the Arsenal,” but I think more in conversation than in print. Presumably referring back to the actual arsenal that gave the team its name. As a long-standing Spurs fan (Tottenham Hotspur, not the US team) who are rivals of Arsenal, I can assure you that the expected choices are: - Arsene Wenger has left Arsenal after a glittering career - Arsenal have come below Spurs in the last two premier League seasons - Down with Arsenal! - Up the Arsenal! So only the last features ‘the’… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/34 "2018-07-16T07:50:18Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > So, would it be “half a metric ton of brick” but “475 kg of bricks”? I agree with **DavidwithanR**. 475 kg of brick is not necessarily identifiable as an exact quantity. I’d go with “brick” instead. However, “475 kg of individually numbered bricks” would be correct. Think about “sand” vs. “grains of sand”. If the individual nature is important, go with the countable plural. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/35 "2018-07-16T08:46:43Z")
> [@NetTrekker](#): > > New York –\> city name –\> singular; Yankees –\> players –\> plural > > Boston –\> city name –\> singular; Red Sox –\> players –\> plural > > New York wins, Yankees win; Boston wins, Red Sox win Manchester –\> city name –\> singular; Manchester United –\> players –\> plural. You’re not even being internally consistent with your own peeve. **If** “Manchester United is the name of 1 soccer team and should therefore take the singular verb form” as you state in the OP, **then** “Yankees” also refers to 1 baseball team, and should also take the singular verb form". They either both refer to the team (singular), or they both refer to the players (plural). So which is it? Does the name of the team refer to one single team, or does it refer to all of the players? I think it’s the absence of an “s” or “s sound” that is tripping you up. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/36 "2018-07-16T09:05:57Z")
There is no single, correct way to use the English language. As long as it conveys meaning between speakers in a conversation the various quirks are merely the equivalent of wearing a funny hat whilst doing so. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/37 "2018-07-16T11:00:54Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not listening until you agree to drop that ridiculous “s” from “maths.” Well, they had an extra ‘s’ sitting around after they removed it from ‘sports’. Had to go somewhere I guess. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/38 "2018-07-16T11:09:49Z")
I see I was ninja’d upthread. Sorry :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/39 "2018-07-16T11:24:28Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Well, they had an extra ‘s’ sitting around after they removed it from ‘sports’. Had to go somewhere I guess. We use both "sports"and “sport” in British english whereas we pretty much never use the word “math” ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968/40 "2018-07-16T16:16:25Z")
> [@glee](#): > > As a long-standing Spurs fan (Tottenham Hotspur, not the US team) who are rivals of Arsenal, I can assure you that the expected choices are: > > - Arsene Wenger has left Arsenal after a glittering career > - Arsenal have come below Spurs in the last two premier League seasons > - Down with Arsenal! > - Up the Arsenal! > > So only the last features ‘the’… My experience comes from talking to friends in London who most definitely say “the” Arsenal at least sometimes when referring to their preferred team. However, maybe that usage is peculiar to a small group of supporters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-recent-subject-verb-disagreement-epidemic/817968.md?page=3)