# Why the republicans are destined to fail **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 4, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919 "2022-02-04T18:12:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/201 "2022-02-09T01:59:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And you still haven’t answered the question as to whether you think that anyone is being prosecuted for engaging in legitimate political discourse. I have no idea. As far as I can tell, that’s what’s being claimed; and, as far as I can tell, various folks are seeing what’s being claimed and saying, no, that isn’t what’s being claimed. If I’d only ever seen folks saying, _no, the claim being made is false,_ then I wouldn’t have argued the point to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/202 "2022-02-09T02:02:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, well, I agree with that. I can’t _not_ agree with that. And if you went on to ask me about people who committed a crime on January 5th or December 4th or November 3rd or whatever, I’d answer the same way, for the same reason — but, since the interviewer didn’t ask Rubio that question, I honestly can’t rule out the possibility that he’d give the same answer I would, since I just now gave the same answer that he did. So, then you agree that if someone wasn’t in Washington on January 6, they can’t be guilty of any crimes related to the sedition on that day. If someone was directing people via radio or text messages, letting them know where senators were in order to find them and take them hostage, but weren’t physically there, they can’t be prosecuted. If someone had, prior to January 6, set up the planning, made sure that the Proud Boys were able to be there, provided weapons to folks, and made sure that everything was ready, but wasn’t actually in Washington on January 6, they can’t be prosecuted. Is that what you’re saying? Because that’s what Rubio is saying. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/203 "2022-02-09T02:03:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So, then you agree that if someone wasn’t in Washington on January 6, they can’t be guilty of any crimes related to the sedition on that day. Uh, no? > [@](#): > > Is that what you’re saying? Uh, no? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/204 "2022-02-09T02:13:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Uh, no? So, then you aren’t really saying anything anymore. Oh boy. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/205 "2022-02-09T02:50:13Z")
Hey, @The_Other_Waldo_Pepper? _Mitch McConnell_ takes issue with the RNC statement about Jan 6. > [@Mitch](#): > > Senate Minority Leader [Mitch McConnell](https://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell) (R-Ky.) broke with the RNC over a resolution last week describing the Jan. 6 attack as “legitimate political discourse” and criticized the decision to censure GOP Reps. [Adam Kinzinger](https://thehill.com/people/adam-kinzinger) (Ill.) and [Liz Cheney](https://thehill.com/people/elizabeth-liz-cheney) (Wyo.). > > “It was a violent insurrection with the purpose of trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election. … That’s what it was,” McConnell said. [https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/593406-gop-tensions-flare-over-jan-6-attack](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/593406-gop-tensions-flare-over-jan-6-attack) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/206 "2022-02-09T02:52:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As far as I can tell, Rubio gave those same two answers Then why the hell are is he calling the investigation a partisan scam for doing exactly what he says he wants it to do? If I say that I want to boycott Ben and Jerry’s and then comment that “I support the selling of tasty ice cream but not selling harmful poisons that kill people”. Might you not get the impression either that the ice cream Ben and Jerry’s sells contains harmful poison that kills people or that they sell something else besides ice cream that is a poison? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/207 "2022-02-09T03:06:29Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Then why the hell are is he calling the investigation a partisan scam for doing exactly what he says he wants it to do? His claim, as I understand it, is that the investigation isn’t merely going after people who committed crimes, but is going after people who committed no crimes: people who — as opposed to a guy who hires a hitman to commit a crime, and thereby commits a crime — weren’t in favor of the criminal activity that happened on January 6th, and who have therefore condemned what happened on January 6th. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/208 "2022-02-09T03:55:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I just looked up “disingenuous” in the dictionary, and it had a picture of your argument in it. And I looked up “discourse”. It had a crossed-out picture of Karl Marx in it, now replaced by Ronna McDaniel 😳😳 ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/209 "2022-02-09T04:57:20Z")
OK so you have settled on the interpretation that Ben and Jerry’s sells other things besides ice cream that poisons people. Has he bothered actually naming any names of innocent babes caught up in this diabolical trap of persecution, or are we just supposed to take it as understood because that is just the sort of thing those dastardly Democrats do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/210 "2022-02-09T10:59:35Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Has he bothered actually naming any names of innocent babes caught up in this diabolical trap of persecution, or are we just supposed to take it as understood because that is just the sort of thing those dastardly Democrats do. See, _this is my whole point_. Instead of rejecting his claim out of hand, you’re _asking_ whether his claim is true or false — and, in that respect, I have no argument with you; as I’ve said, I have no idea whether it’s true or false; my objection is to those who seem to think he’s not even making the claim in question. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/211 "2022-02-09T11:56:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > > > Has he bothered actually naming any names of innocent babes caught up in this diabolical trap of persecution, or are we just supposed to take it as understood because that is just the sort of thing those dastardly Democrats do. > > See, _this is my whole point_ . Instead of rejecting his claim out of hand, you’re _asking_ whether his claim is true or false No, he’s pointing out that Rubio is pulling the claim out of his ass without presenting any evidence to back it up. Also, there’s still the issue of Rubio using the GQP diversion of trying to limit the issue to crimes committed _on January 6_ (i.e. throwing the expendable mooks under the bus while protecting the planners and organizers). ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/212 "2022-02-09T16:29:48Z")
To extend this, I am saying that the GOP is taking extraordinary measures to try to shut down any investigation of what went down on January 6th 2021. Going to the point of Censuring two of its members for participating in it, While being deliberately ambiguous about what their criticism of the investigation is so that they can alter their justification depending on who they are talking to at the time. I will point out that the post that started this whole side track was > [@Akaj](#): > > Just one quibble – you say “it’d,” as in “it would,” but _this thwarting is actually happening right now_ , with Trump administration folks ignoring subpeonas, the GOP ostracizing their own people working on the committee investigating Jan. 6, and most recently the vile “legitimate political discourse” angle. Not just random whackjobs – the actual Republican party. Which is undeniably true. There is no way that are reasonable person would look at the actions and rhetoric of the Republican party and think that they actually want the events of that day thoroughly investigated, and won’t do everything in their power to prevent such an investigation from taking place. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/213 "2022-02-09T17:08:45Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > To extend this, I am saying that the GOP is taking extraordinary measures to try to shut down any investigation of what went down on January 6th 2021. Going to the point of Censuring two of its members for participating in it, While being deliberately ambiguous about what their criticism of the investigation is so that they can alter their justification depending on who they are talking to at the time That’s what makes me think they know that there are members who are going to get nailed for it. If they were just being obstructionist about it. that would be regular politics. The Republicans and Democrats will resist anything the other does, that is part of the game (which is why when bipartisan actions occur they are notable). But to go so far as to censure your own members seems way beyond normal to me. And now there is some in-fighting about it. This is definitely not business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/214 "2022-02-09T17:16:06Z")
It’s pretty well known that at least some congress members gave a not insignificant amount of aid to some of the insurrectionists. If nothing else “tours” of the building that they were shortly going to invade. What exactly they did, for what reasons, and what that means for their legal liability in this is yet to be determined, and it seems as though there are some who really don’t want that to be determined. Not to mention other officials that could have been complicit in this. I was not surprised in the slightest by the events of 1/6, up _until_ they breached the Capitol. I knew they were going to have a violent protest and _try_ to get in, I just thought that the police would be competent, and that national guard would even be involved in order to protect our seat of democracy. There was planning behind the mob, and that needs to be investigated, and there was something between utter incompetence to complicity on the part of those who were supposed to be protecting the Capitol\*, and that needs to be investigated. \*and by that, I mean those in charge, not the people on the ground. (There were some questionable moments of officers taking selfies with insurrectionists, and that should be looked into, but I would accept the argument that they were just trying to mollify the violent mob by acting cordially.) Most of the officers at the Capitol did their best to protect it, but were not given the tools, the support, or the rules of engagement to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/215 "2022-02-09T19:47:23Z")
That because The Republican Party is now an extremist organization. I get it, the National Review wants to move away from Trump and election fraud. The WSJ editorial boards wants to move from Trump and election fraud. As does Chris Christie, Karl Rove and a whole bunch of Bush/ Ryan era Republicans. It’s looking like lots of conservative journalists and pundits and ex-politicians and consultants are all ready to move away from the Trump election conspiracy bullshit. But, among Republicans currently holding elected office, Republicans who want to keep their careers as elected officials, the needle hasn’t moved at all in the past year. That because the Republican Party is still 100% all in for Trump and always will be, no matter what he says or does. He could openly advocate for Civil War tomorrow and they’d still all be all in for Trump. Before you disagree, let me clarify what I mean by _ **The Republican Party** _. I don’t mean politicians with an R after their name. I don’t mean people that identify as Republicans or people in favor of small government, low taxes and censorship. I’m talking about the machine. The RNC. The state and local RNC organizations. The fundraising platforms, like WinRed. The people that own the trademarks on the name and the elephant logo. During the past 5 years, while Trump was distracting us with the clown show, his cronies were hard at work. They purged the moderates from every state and local RNC office and replaced them with extremists. And they took over the fundraising platforms, driving the old company out of business and replacing it with WinRed, a platform founded and operated by Trump and Kushner cronies. (I can provide cites on this upon request, I did some research on this a year or two ago. I’d have to dig them up, though) In other words, Trump owns the RNC. It exists to pay his legal bills and channel donor money to his properties and conduct election fraudits and promote extremists. And this is a problem for all you people that still call themselves Republicans. You can try as hard as you can to try to pretend that the Republican Party is still a normal party. You may be able to trick your brain into believing that when the Republican Party says that January 6th was “normal political discourse”, they really mean “it was horrible and probably should be investigated, but since we really don’t want to set the precedent of letting Democrats investigate us, we are going to pretend it was nothing….wink wink”. I’m not going to go in on the outrage though, because I’m not outraged. I’m thrilled, actually. I would like nothing more than for the Republicans to primary every halfway sane candidate and run insane QANON nuts for every open Congressional seat in the nation. Maybe they’ll even kick out more moderate incumbents before the election, and throw their money behind some crazy people. I hope Trump keeps on throwing shit at the moderates and destroying candidates that don’t go all in with his election fraud stuff. Because riling up Trump isn’t just fun, it’s strategic. He lets his opponents play him like a Steinway Grand. I know the midterm elections don’t look good for Democrats, but neither did the Georgia senate runoffs. Or the special election to fill the Alabama senate seat in 2017, which is the prime example of how bad it can get for Republicans when Trump gets involved. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/216 "2022-02-09T19:52:41Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I would like nothing more than for the Republicans to primary every halfway sane candidate and run insane QANON nuts for every open Congressional seat in the nation. Maybe they’ll even kick out more moderate incumbents before the election, and throw their money behind some crazy people. I assume that you mean this from the perspective that such candidates will lose the general. I am not so sanguine on that fact. Many of them are in extremely safe districts, where most of the voters would vote for the person with an R by their name, no matter how QANON insane they are. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/217 "2022-02-09T19:54:33Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I’m not going to go in on the outrage though, because I’m not outraged. I’m thrilled, actually. I would like nothing more than for the Republicans to primary every halfway sane candidate and run insane QANON nuts for every open Congressional seat in the nation. Maybe they’ll even kick out more moderate incumbents before the election, and throw their money behind some crazy people. The more the party embraces the MTGs of the world, the fewer people are going to be okay with voting for them. They’ll have a really, **really** dedicated (rabid) set of followers, but it’ll be small. That’s what cults are. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/218 "2022-02-09T20:00:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > > I would like nothing more than for the Republicans to primary every halfway sane candidate and run insane QANON nuts for every open Congressional seat in the nation. Maybe they’ll even kick out more moderate incumbents before the election, and throw their money behind some crazy people. > > I assume that you mean this from the perspective that such candidates will lose the general. > > I am not so sanguine on that fact. Many of them are in extremely safe districts, where most of the voters would vote for the person with an R by their name, no matter how QANON insane they are. Well, ideally I’d like for them to run crazy candidates in competitive disctricts and reasonable moderates in safe districts, but that’s not going to happen. So I’m going to stake my hopes on their “run the crazies” strategy causing them enough losses to remain a minority in the House. I’d rather have a House of Representatives with a minority of crazy Trump R’s than a House of Representatives with a majority of DeSantis style R’s. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/219 "2022-02-09T20:07:30Z")
I can’t disagree with your desire there, I just can’t bring myself to be optimistic about Republican voters caring or even noting the insanity of the person they are voting for. Were it not for Trump, I may feel differently, but there were 74 million people that voted for him, and every one of those will vote for the most batshit insane frothing Republican (but I repeat myself) that is offered up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919/220 "2022-02-09T20:09:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I can’t disagree with your desire there, I just can’t bring myself to be optimistic about Republican voters caring or even noting the insanity of the person they are voting for. Republican voters wont care, but people will stop being Republican voters. Case in point: me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-republicans-are-destined-to-fail/958919.md?page=12)