# Why the South seceded from the Union **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974 "2017-08-28T23:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hectorik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Hectorik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hectorik)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/1 "2017-08-28T23:41:25Z")
And… Why we need to do it AGAIN! **[The real reason why the South seceded from the Union](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S96iQYL0bw)** You wonder why you don’t get any results from ‘writing to your congressman?’ Representatives are capped at 435 individuals. This sets a ratio of citizens-to-reps at a ridiculously low level. In fact, if this ratio were in effect in 1789, there would only be\*\* 5 representatives TOTAL for the 13 states.\*\* That means that \*\*5 states would have only 1 representative - and 8 states would have NO REPRESENTATION at all!!! \*\* I remember the day that I sat in U.S. Government class as a senior in high school and asked the question, _ **“What do the Democrat and Republican parties represent? Do they mean to say that the Democrats propose a democracy and that the Republicans propose to support a republic?”** _ Our teacher, Mr. Orr, replied, _ **“I’m afraid we can’t discuss that in here. I value my job more than that. Does anyone else have any questions? If not, let’s turn to page ## in our books and continue.”** _ It struck me as totally absurd then - that we couldn’t talk about government in Government class because of political correctness in our public school and it still strikes me as completely absurd. I wish I’d had access to the information in Dr. Livingston’s presentation back then! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/2 "2017-08-28T23:47:11Z")
I don’t feel like watching the video; are you interested in summarizing it? Though I can guess by the rest of your rather scattered post it probably attempts to claim that the South seceded for some reason other than protecting the institution of slavery. If so, it’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/3 "2017-08-28T23:51:41Z")
slavery ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/4 "2017-08-28T23:54:04Z")
Maybe the Southern states would have had enough citizens to get more representatives if they had freed the slaves and granted them citizenship. That would have been something! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/5 "2017-08-28T23:59:38Z")
Read their own secession statements. They all state that they are fighting to defend slavery and white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/6 "2017-08-29T00:01:58Z")
> [@Hectorik](#): > > I remember the day that I sat in U.S. Government class as a senior in high school and asked the question, _ **“What do the Democrat and Republican parties represent? Do they mean to say that the Democrats propose a democracy and that the Republicans propose to support a republic?”** _ > ! Did they deduct points becauseyou got the name of one of the two major parties wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/7 "2017-08-29T00:08:34Z")
[The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States](https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states) Georgia: > [@](#): > > For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. Mississippi: > [@](#): > > Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world… [A] blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. South Carolina: > [@](#): > > But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery… Texas: > [@](#): > > [Texas] was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. As you can see, secession was all about States Rights and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/8 "2017-08-29T00:19:02Z")
Yup. The rights of citizens of the states to own slaves. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/9 "2017-08-29T00:31:39Z")
> [@Hectorik](#): > > I remember the day that I sat in U.S. Government class as a senior in high school and asked the question, _ **“What do the Democrat and Republican parties represent? Do they mean to say that the Democrats propose a democracy and that the Republicans propose to support a republic?”** _ > > Our teacher, Mr. Orr, replied, \*\*\*"I’m afraid we can’t discuss that in here. I value my job more than that. \*\*\* I am not sure why you felt a need to start a thread in Great Debates just because you had a crappy teacher. We discussed those issues in both our American History and our Government classes and no one even considered it likely that the teachers would get a wrist slap, much less lose their jobs. If your teacher was not 1) being facetious 2) being needlessly paranoid or 3) flat out lying, then you lived in some sort of truly horrible school district. (And the answer to the question in the thread title is: the Southern leaders worked themselves into a lather fearing that the North might abolish slavery 20 years hence and they really, really needed their slavery.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/10 "2017-08-29T00:38:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If your teacher was not 1) being facetious > 2) being needlessly paranoid > or 3) flat out lying, > then you lived in some sort of truly horrible school district. It sounds like the teacher was afraid of getting in trouble for (ostensibly) supporting one party over the other. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/11 "2017-08-29T00:48:25Z")
The OP needs a Crash Course: [QUOTE] \*\*John Green:\*\* "Hi I’m John Green; this is Crash Course US History and today we discuss one of the most confusing questions in American history: What caused the Civil War? Just kidding, it’s not a confusing question at all: Slavery caused the Civil War." Mr.Green from the past: “Mr. Green, Mr. Green, but what about, like, states rights and nationalism, economics –” **John Green:**"Me from the Past, your senior year of high school you will be taught American Government by Mr. Fleming, a white Southerner who will seem to you to be about 182 years old, and you will say something to him in class about states rights. And Mr. Fleming will turn to you and he will say, “_A state’s rights to what, sir?_” And for the first time in your snotty little life, you will be well and truly speechless." [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/12 "2017-08-29T00:48:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It sounds like the teacher was afraid of getting in trouble for (ostensibly) supporting one party over the other. Perhaps. But the question he refused to answer can certainly be answered without taking sides. One merely presents the arguments evenly, attributing them to the appropriate sides or authors. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/13 "2017-08-29T00:48:45Z")
Thanks Johnny for pulling up the quotes I was too lazy to find. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/14 "2017-08-29T00:58:44Z")
> [@Hectorik](#): > > Representatives are capped at 435 individuals. This sets a ratio of citizens-to-reps at a ridiculously low level. In fact, if this ratio were in effect in 1789, there would only be\*\* 5 representatives TOTAL for the 13 states.\*\* > > That means that \*\*5 states would have only 1 representative - and 8 states would have NO REPRESENTATION at all!!! \*\* The Constitution states rather plainly that every State gets at least one Representative. Since obviously you haven’t even bothered to read the document, we can disregard anything you say as the postings of somebody who can’t be bothered to read, therefore can be safely ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/15 "2017-08-29T01:10:20Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Thanks Johnny for pulling up the quotes I was too lazy to find. ¡De nada! (Besides, it will make it easier for me to find them again. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/16 "2017-08-29T01:27:19Z")
> [@Hectorik](#): > > . . . I remember the day that I sat in U.S. Government class as a senior in high school and asked the question, _ **“What do the Democrat and Republican parties represent? Do they mean to say that the Democrats propose a democracy and that the Republicans propose to support a republic?”** _ . . . That sounds like why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway? The names are historical artifacts. Do not search for meaning in the names. Depending on the school population, I could totally see someone teaching Government not wanting to dive into political identity. That way lies aggrieved arguments. And if someone’s trying to open that box with a joke (are they proposing a democracy?), it’s obviously not a good time to open the box. Especially if your buddies were grinning. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/17 "2017-08-29T02:13:51Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/18 "2017-08-29T02:35:30Z")
So the southern states seceded in 1860 and 1861 over a law that was enacted in 1911. No, I don’t think I’m going to watch that video. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/19 "2017-08-29T07:08:05Z")
> [@Hectorik](#): > > I remember the day that I sat in U.S. Government class as a senior in high school and asked the question, _ **“What do the Democrat and Republican parties represent? Do they mean to say that the Democrats propose a democracy and that the Republicans propose to support a republic?”** _ > > Our teacher, Mr. Orr, replied, _ **“I’m afraid we can’t discuss that in here. I value my job more than that. Does anyone else have any questions? If not, let’s turn to page ## in our books and continue.”** _ This post hasn’t been graped by the grapist. Also, slavery. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974/20 "2017-08-29T11:40:28Z")
Nothing says serious debate like purple italicized text, bolded font and multiple exclamation points. Also, slavery. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-south-seceded-from-the-union/794974.md?page=2)