# Why the spelling restrictions with the word "god"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334 "2008-12-09T00:51:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![fighting\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@fighting\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fighting_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/41 "2008-12-11T00:55:37Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > The Easter Bunny doesn’t have a proper name, his descriptor IS his proper name. The Christian deity has a proper name, and there is no reason to use that spelling quirk other than to take a snide poke at other faiths. The use of Him, His, etc is even more obnoxious and less justifiable grammatically. How dare you insult Alan the Easter Bunny! ---
**Author:** ![schindler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@schindler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schindler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/42 "2008-12-11T07:23:29Z")
> [@Westrogothia](#): > > The “you should not have any other businesses” also rather assumes there are in fact other businesses out there looking to get my attention. > > If in fact there were no other businesses my boss would have no need to tell me. > unless he was a real dick, but then I rather think he would say something like. “Im the only god… ehm… boss there is.. and dont you forget it…” yes, but if there was a practice (as there obviously was… a few chapters later is the golden calf incident, which should be familiar from a movie starring the ex-face of the NRA) of worshipping other “gods”, then the admonition “don’t worship other gods” needn’t imply that they actually exist. False gods can be worshipped too… anyone religious person will attest to that regarding certain other religions, and any atheist will attest to that regarding all religions. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/43 "2008-12-11T08:06:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > the President is the guy in the White House in Washington. No way. The guy in the White House is the president too. Although when the Chimp got in there without being elected, many people started capitalizing the R-- pResident. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/44 "2008-12-11T12:03:27Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Timeout. He already told you of at least one Christian group who does: the one he grew up with. I shared the information about your religion because it seems very relevant, not as a personal attack. The very first question any witnessing JW has asked me is if I know the name of God, and that it’s Jevovah. You’ve named your very religion after it. “Jehovah” doesn’t appear in the original Hebrew Bible, either. It’s only one of more than 700 ways that YHVH can be pronounced(the following shamelessly stolen from Lon Milo DuQuette’s\* Chicken Qabalah\*): The Y can be prounounced Yah, Jah, Yay, Jay, Yeh, Jeh, Yee, Jee, Gee, Yigh, Jigh, Eye, You, Joe, You or Jew Either H: Hah, Ah, Hay, Aay, Heh, Eh, Hee, EE, High, I, (Eye), Ho, Oh, Hoo, (Who) or Oo The V: Vah., Wah, Vay, Way, Veh, Weh, Vee, We, Vigh, Why, Voe, Woe, Voo or Woo Mix and match, and God gets a lot of names: > [@](#): > > Students of Zen could meditate upon the inscrutable _I-He-We-Who?_ > > Chanting the mantra _You-Who-Way-High_ might bring the devotee to the realization of _I-Who-Way-High?_ > > Tantric lovers might lure their diving lover by cooing “_Yoo-Hoo! Way-High!_” or at the ecstatic moment they could shout “_Yeh! I-Woo-High?_” > > The beauties of paradise might cause vacationing mystics to swoon and utter “_Gee! Ha-Wah-Ee!_” > > Perhaps the God of cowboys is called _Gee-Haa! Wah-hoo!_ I’m not sure why the Jehovah’s Witnesses chose “Jehova” specifically, maybe you could tell us. But to a Biblical scholar or one who reads Hebrew, it’s no more or less God’s name than the farmer’s God, _Joe Who Weigh Hay_. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/45 "2008-12-11T12:12:50Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Acid-Who doesn’t believe in any God, god, gods, or other permutations of the word. Then what do you care how it’s spelled? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/46 "2008-12-11T15:22:46Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > However, every single Christian denomination I’m aware of would _not_ claim that God’s name was actually “God.” Then we are at an impasse, since your upbringing was different from mine. What a difference a sect makes. In the churches and religious gatherings I attended from childhood to the age of majority, I don’t recall any prayers, lectures or sermons where references to the principal diety of belief was anything other than God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, or the combined Trinity. Prayers were said to God or Jesus (God the Father, God the Son), not usually the Holy Ghost. References to the King James Biblical names (Elohim, YHWH) were used in an historical sense only. The Christians I know don’t use the names of Elohim or Yahweh in ordinary prayers. YMMV. In case you’re thinking that God is only one of many gods, that is not possible in a _modern_\* montheistic religion. There are no other gods but the correct one. * * * \*I’m aware that in times past, monotheistic religions sometimes worshiped only one god at a time, but conceded the existance of other gods for other people. When you visit your neighbors, you worship their god, but both groups can be characterized as monotheistic. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/47 "2008-12-11T16:59:51Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > The simple fact is, in the original texts the name “God”, “Sovereign Lord”, or “Lord” did not appear. If **Musicat** wishes to take the position that “my church taught me that”, or that it appears as “God” (etc) in his translations, you’ll have no argument from me. > > However, every single Christian denomination I’m aware of would _not_ claim that God’s name was actuallyw “God.” In the Hebrew text, the names _adonai_ (our lord) and _elohim_ (god) most certainly do appear. “Sovereign Lord” is an inexact translation of _adonai YHVH_, probably because _YHVH_ is usually rendered as “LORD” and “our Lord LORD” would sound dumb. What’s God’s real name, anyway? The one his mom gave him? The one on his driver’s license? > [@fighting ignorant](#): > > How dare you insult Alan the Easter Bunny That’s Alana. It’s hard enough for a bunny to lay eggs without being a boy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/48 "2008-12-11T18:16:50Z")
Look, the name of the god worshipped by the ancient Israelites was spelled YHWH. That’s what they believed his name was. We don’t know exactly how it was pronounced, but it seems to me that if you believe that the ancient Isrealites had a direct connection to God, and God told them his name was YHWH, and you believe them, then you should believe that God’s name is YHWH. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/49 "2008-12-11T21:05:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Look, the name of the god worshipped by the ancient Israelites was spelled YHWH. That wasn’t (isn’t) quite his name. It’s more like (bot not quite) his initials. Notice the no vowel thing. It’s impossible to say as it is. It’s like WKRP, if we tried to use it as a word. “Work rip?” “Why creep?” “Wok rape?” Who knows? So we write (and say) “Doubleyew kay are pee.” YHVH is often pronounced “Yud Hey Vowv Hey”: the names of the 4 letters which stand for God, but they’re not his whole name. In turn, each letter means a whole word on it’s own, as well as a number and a slew of other things. Hebrew, especially Biblical Hebrew, is mind bogglingly complex, and a good way to drive yourself bonkers. The reason they consider YHVH closer to the actual name of God than God or G-d or Elohim is because of all those other meanings of the letters that say important stuff about who God is. And when you write it vertically in Hebrew, it looks like a little person. I find that really cool. ---
**Author:** ![schindler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@schindler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schindler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/50 "2008-12-11T23:02:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > That wasn’t (isn’t) quite his name. It’s more like (bot not quite) his initials. Notice the no vowel thing. It’s impossible to say as it is. > > It’s like WKRP, if we tried to use it as a word. “Work rip?” “Why creep?” “Wok rape?” Who knows? So we write (and say) “Doubleyew kay are pee.” YHVH is often pronounced “Yud Hey Vowv Hey”: the names of the 4 letters which stand for God, but they’re not his whole name. In turn, each letter means a whole word on it’s own, as well as a number and a slew of other things. Hebrew, especially Biblical Hebrew, is mind bogglingly complex, and a good way to drive yourself bonkers. The reason they consider YHVH closer to the actual name of God than God or G-d or Elohim is because of all those other meanings of the letters that say important stuff about who God is. > > And when you write it vertically in Hebrew, it looks like a little person. I find that really cool. what are you talking about? it most certainly was pronounced, hence the prohibition against pronouncing it. NO word in the bible had vowels until later masoretes codified pronunciation- the same ones who codified the musical notes that go with verses. the name YHWH probably comes from the root of the verb “to exist”. and hebrew isn’t all that complicated. Biblical hebrew is only slightly harder. you can find good works on biblical grammar– [Wilhelm Gesenius - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Gesenius) gesenius wrote the most authoritative, i think. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/51 "2008-12-11T23:58:52Z")
> [@schindler](#): > > what are you talking about? [Here you go, this guy says it far better than I can.](http://books.google.com/books?id=8nEZc8ArFqoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+chicken+qabalah&client=firefox-a#PPA71,M1) (Link to Google Books preview of _The Chicken Qabalah_, a humorous and also intellectually respectable book on Qabalah. The link should go to page 71, the beginning of the chapter called “The True Pronunciation of the Ineffable Name of God.” If not, Searching within the book for those words will bring it up.) By “complicated” I don’t mean difficult to learn, but rather very comprehensive, in that each letter has a word, number, and has gathered a slew of associations like planets, astrological signs, tarot cards, paths on the Tree of Life, etc. that it’s gathered over the years in various circles. I was once told by the author of this book, “The Hebrew alphabet is the tool you use to connect everything in the universe with everything else, until the only two things left to connect are you and God.” Chapter 4 covers the introduction to the Hebrew alphabet for the modern esotericist, if you’re bored. Interested, I mean! Interested. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/52 "2008-12-12T03:03:05Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > In the Hebrew text, the names _adonai_ (our lord) and _elohim_ (god) most certainly do appear. “Sovereign Lord” is an inexact translation of _adonai YHVH_, probably because _YHVH_ is usually rendered as “LORD” and “our Lord LORD” would sound dumb. They do not appear that way in the original texts. Elohim, Adonai, Kyrios and Theos were substitutes for the Tetrgammaton. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/53 "2008-12-12T03:09:48Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Look, the name of the god worshipped by the ancient Israelites was spelled YHWH. That’s what they believed his name was. We don’t know exactly how it was pronounced, but it seems to me that if you believe that the ancient Isrealites had a direct connection to God, and God told them his name was YHWH, and you believe them, then you should believe that God’s name is YHWH. I agree with I think… The challenge of determining the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is going to be imprecise under any circumstance. But that is going to be the same with figuring put the correct pronunciation with names like the name we call “Jesus”, “Isaiah.” My point is/was that no Christian group I’m aware of actually believes God’s name is “God.” They may not know how to pronounce it. They may disagree on the correct [English} rendering. They may choose to not use it, for a variety of reasons. It may not appear correctly in their translations. But they surely don’t believe his name is “God.” ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/54 "2008-12-12T03:17:20Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Then we are at an impasse, since your upbringing was different from mine. > > What a difference a sect makes. > > In the churches and religious gatherings I attended from childhood to the age of majority, I don’t recall any prayers, lectures or sermons where references to the principal diety of belief was anything other than God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, or the combined Trinity. Prayers were said to God or Jesus (God the Father, God the Son), not usually the Holy Ghost. References to the King James Biblical names (Elohim, YHWH) were used in an historical sense only. The Christians I know don’t use the names of Elohim or Yahweh in ordinary prayers. YMMV. > > In case you’re thinking that God is only one of many gods, that is not possible in a _modern_\* montheistic religion. There are no other gods but the correct one. > > * * * > > \*I’m aware that in times past, monotheistic religions sometimes worshiped only one god at a time, but conceded the existance of other gods for other people. When you visit your neighbors, you worship their god, but both groups can be characterized as monotheistic. I have no quarrel with any of this. However, the fact that your denomination and/or preacher/pastor chose not to use the name “Yahweh”, or “Jehovah” doesn’t mean the Pastor actually believed God’s name was/is “God.” It is common for many Christian groups to not use God’s name at all, _ever._ Many, many others use it infrequently, or in limited contexts. In any event, there is difference between choosing to not use God’s name, and actually believing God’s name is actually “God.” ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/55 "2008-12-12T03:17:29Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > No, God is his name, just like George. > > A god is different from _the_ God. Just depends who you’re referring to. A flower is different from my aunt Flower. Like _Me_? Wow! ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/56 "2008-12-12T03:24:39Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > He already told you of at least one Christian group who does: the one he grew up with. > > I shared the information about your religion because it seems very relevant, not as a personal attack. The very first question any witnessing JW has asked me is if I know the name of God, and that it’s Jevovah. You’ve named your very religion after it. > > “Jehovah” doesn’t appear in the original Hebrew Bible, either. It’s only one of more than 700 ways that YHVH can be pronounced(the following shamelessly stolen from Lon Milo DuQuette’s\* Chicken Qabalah\*): > > The Y can be prounounced Yah, Jah, Yay, Jay, Yeh, Jeh, Yee, Jee, Gee, Yigh, Jigh, Eye, You, Joe, You or Jew > > Either H: Hah, Ah, Hay, Aay, Heh, Eh, Hee, EE, High, I, (Eye), Ho, Oh, Hoo, (Who) or Oo > > The V: Vah., Wah, Vay, Way, Veh, Weh, Vee, We, Vigh, Why, Voe, Woe, Voo or Woo > > Mix and match, and God gets a lot of names: > I’m not sure why the Jehovah’s Witnesses chose “Jehova” specifically, maybe you could tell us. But to a Biblical scholar or one who reads Hebrew, it’s no more or less God’s name than the farmer’s God, _Joe Who Weigh Hay_. It certainly isn’t clear that the Christian group “he grew up with” actually believes God’s name is “God” (especially given his subsequent posts), but rather, he ‘didn’t recall hearing it.’ At any rate, I’d be really hard pressed to believe that his pastor/denomination believed God’s name is/was “God.” I can certainly believe that they didn’t _use it._ I’d surely believe most didn’t _know it._ But that is a far cry from believing God’s name is “God.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/57 "2008-12-12T04:03:33Z")
In the Kabbalah, the Tetragrammaton _YHVH_ is interpreted as an anagram of יהיה _ **yi** hyeh_ - הווה _ **hov** eh_ - היה _hay **ah** _ ‘he will be - he is - he was’. Those old Kabbalists sure had their way with… letters. I find it curious however that this instance of kabbalization runs time backwards…? This would also explain how the Tetragrammaton came to be pronounced yi-hov-ah or “Jehovah”… like it’s made from those anagrammed letters in the tenses of the verb ‘to be’. _I was… I am… I am to come!_ ---
**Author:** ![schindler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@schindler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schindler)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/58 "2008-12-12T09:08:45Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > They do not appear that way in the original texts. > > Elohim, Adonai, Kyrios and Theos were substitutes for the Tetrgammaton. you are mistaken. Elohim and Adonai are both hebrew names for, or at least references to, God. They were in the original texts… in fact, YHWH does not appear at all in Genesis 1, Elohim takes its place. Kyrios and Theos are obviously not Hebrew, so they were not. as for all the lovely mysticism all over this page-- it is a fundamental misunderstanding of mystical interpretation, to impose it on the “p’shat” (simple reading) of a text, phrase, word, etc. the name YHWH, whatever kabbalists or sages have made of it, is not a set of initials, or a vertical person. It does bear a relationship to “Was, am, will be”, because it shares a root with those verbs. Later homiletics, be they mystical-kabbalistic or not, have no bearing on the fact that the name WAS pronounced (even if we lack a tradition as to what this pronunciation was), and was not, originally, viewed the way later kabbalists and their followers viewed it. ---
**Author:** ![schindler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@schindler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schindler)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/59 "2008-12-12T09:15:31Z")
also, I suggest that anyone interested in Qabbala, for whatever reason, read “Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism” by Gerschom Scholem, the truly authoritative scholarly text on the historical evolution of qabbala and its key concepts. afterwards, you’ll actually have a foundation on which to build an evalutation of any other book you come across on the matter-- because a lot of utter crap has been written. the work u quoted was written by “lamed ben clifford”, whose real name i forget. He is an occultist who studies the works of Aleister Crowley and his likes. You will not learn anything about Jewish qabbala from him. you may, if ur lucky, learn what weirdos in the 20th century think about magic, spirits, and the value of secret societies. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334/60 "2008-12-12T14:23:50Z")
> [@schindler](#): > > you are mistaken. Elohim and Adonai are both hebrew names for, or at least references to, God. They were in the original texts… in fact, YHWH does not appear at all in Genesis 1, Elohim takes its place. > > Kyrios and Theos are obviously not Hebrew, so they were not. > > as for all the lovely mysticism all over this page-- it is a fundamental misunderstanding of mystical interpretation, to impose it on the “p’shat” (simple reading) of a text, phrase, word, etc. the name YHWH, whatever kabbalists or sages have made of it, is not a set of initials, or a vertical person. It does bear a relationship to “Was, am, will be”, because it shares a root with those verbs. Later homiletics, be they mystical-kabbalistic or not, have no bearing on the fact that the name WAS pronounced (even if we lack a tradition as to what this pronunciation was), and was not, originally, viewed the way later kabbalists and their followers viewed it. Cite this, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-spelling-restrictions-with-the-word-god/476334.md?page=4)