# Why the stigma about masturbation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857 "2004-10-29T15:19:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/61 "2004-10-31T02:57:55Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I think the frustration works both ways in that case. I am quite sure it does. But still, clumsy as they were, the early days of sexual fumbling on my first romantic tryst are certainly never to be forgotten, and are held closely to my heart. Some of the happiest days of my life (I was lucky and had an absolutely perfect partner - and I don’t mean she was a playboy model or that crap) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/62 "2004-10-31T03:06:28Z")
Do you think it has something to do with the fact that everyone who has masturbated has, technically speaking, brought a person of the same sex to orgasm and enjoyed it? ---
**Author:** ![Chimpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@Chimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimpy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/63 "2004-10-31T10:32:30Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Do you think it has something to do with the fact that everyone who has masturbated has, technically speaking, brought a person of the same sex to orgasm and enjoyed it? Or are commiting incest: in·cest ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nsst) n. 1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom. You are too closely related to yourself to marry yourself, thus masturbation is incest. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/64 "2004-10-31T10:44:03Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > It’s possible that early religious leaders thought that masturbation wasn’t a problem for women. That doesn’t mean that women don’t masturbate or didn’t masturbate in the past, only that it wasn’t fully understood back then. I agree with you and **Gorillaman** , that’s quite likely. Also, it’s mostly men who make the rules, (usually not men with happy sex-lives) and they would have been even less aware of the possibility of female masturbating then women themselves were. (I’ve noticed that it’s usually men who lay down the law, but -apart from Saoedi Arabia with their mostly elderly male “religious police”- but mostly women who act as law-enforcers, through constant scrutiny and gossipping) So where does that leave my argument, that there being no ban on female masturbation, because there would be too large a group that wouldn’t feel guilty? I think it can both be true. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/65 "2004-11-01T17:22:52Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > (I’ve been having a bit of a crisis of faith lately, so don’t take this as any sort of a defacto denial of faith. In the last week I’ve learned of 2 kids taking into CPS care while my wife and I are looking at starting IVF next month. I’m a little bitter.) Not to get into your personal life (he says as he gets into your personal life), but isn’t there kind of a disconnect here? I mean, have you thought about adoption? The process isn’t necessarily cheap but IVF is expensive as all hell. I mean, it would help with the “some kids get treated like crap and we can’t even have any” issue - you get a kid, one less kid gets treated like crap, she doesn’t get stretch marks, etc. Everyone’s a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/66 "2004-11-01T17:42:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > For how many decades does one have to masturbate before the sex drive starts dropping off? Just wondering. More than six! ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/67 "2004-11-01T18:15:24Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > I always figured it had to do with not wanting to waste sperm. If you believe that every cell in a dude’s product is half of a potential “life,” then you don’t want to just flush that down the toilet. Think of all the great composers and artists and heart surgeons you’re killing! \ Sounds reasonable. . .until you realize that in every ejaculate there are perhaps millions of sperm, only one of which can fertalize an egg, and the majority ejaculations even in the “right” place do not result in a pregnancy. All those uncountable trillions of sperm that don’t “complete the journey” in a man’s lifetime are wasted. If it were really that important to a god that mankind replenish itself, why did he/she/it make it so extraordinarily difficult for sperm and egg to come together? Also, if “wasting sperm” is a reason for making masturbation a sin, why is totally involuntary nocturnal emission built into the system? Does god just enjoy f\*\*\*ing with our minds? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/68 "2004-11-01T18:24:00Z")
> [@Eric II](#): > > Obviously you people, smart though you may be, have missed the most definitive psychological study done so far. > > It found that 95% of the people in the country masterbate and the other 5% are liars. > > So there… > > And don’t ask for a cite, either! I can’t cite it either, but when I was in high school in what I thought were the dark ages (graduated in 1961) there was an assembly of all the boys in which a sex talk was given by some supposed expert. He said exactly the same thing. It was his way of telling us that we were not unnatural, sinful, awful or idiotic because we did what every other male in history had done, and we needn’t feel guilty about it. My upbringing was a little repressed, but by that time I had already sneaked a look (or two, or…) at the Kinsey Report, and I knew I was okay. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/69 "2004-11-01T18:33:41Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Also, if “wasting sperm” is a reason for making masturbation a sin, why is totally involuntary nocturnal emission built into the system? Does god just enjoy f\*\*\*ing with our minds? [stereotype]Well, of course there’s some built-in inescapable guilt. What, did you forget that God is, after all, a Jewish parent? 😉 ;j You should be grateful for that guilt! [/stereotype] I kid, I kid. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/70 "2004-11-01T19:32:06Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Touching Yourself is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. > Why? Sorry about the late entry. God sometimes punishes promiscuous sex: Crabs, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, AIDS, etc. Therefore ALL sex must be evil and a sin and must not be enjoyed. ``` Commandment 11 ``` Thou should suffer through sex only for sanctified and procreative purposes. (This was on the tablet Moses broke on the way down the mountain.) Not. rwj ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/71 "2004-11-01T20:01:11Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Does god just enjoy f\*\*\*ing with our minds? [Bill Hicks] Mwah ha haa!! I am a _prankster God_!! [/Bill Hicks] ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/72 "2004-11-01T20:17:58Z")
They say that idle hands are the devils tool. Then why am I supposed to keep my hands idle when they’re near my tool? It seems like, coming or going, they’ve got you beat… ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/73 "2004-11-01T20:23:23Z")
But seriously, it seems that the religious objection to flying solo is the general objection to hedonism. Masturbation is done only for pleasure (nevermind donating samples. That didn’t start until much later than the ban on the hand.) Therefore, it is hedonistic. A person giving themselves up to empty pleasure is distracted from that which is truly important: the spiritual world. And what’s a quick wank compared to everlasting heaven or roasting in hell? Whatever. I think they’re just jerking us around. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/74 "2004-11-02T08:40:40Z")
I always found the religious arguments against jerking off pretty weird. To summarize: -masturbation cannot result in conception; therefore it is pleasure without the chance of creating life -masturbation can substitute for intercourse, which produces human life -masturbation induces “impure” thoughts (whatever they are)Oddly enough, Freud believed that wacking off might be harmful (something about depleting precious bodily fluids, or something). What’s the latest take (of the RC Church) on this? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/75 "2004-11-02T09:16:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What’s the latest take (of the RC Church) on this? Well, according to [this article](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1453/is_n12_v40/ai_14784305) the 1993 papal encyclical ‘Veritatis Splendor’ condemns masturbation as heavily as ever. > [@](#): > > The encyclical contains some useful extensions of papal teaching into areas dealing with the honesty and charity of economic practices, as well as with several life-damaging sins peculiar to our age. But its hairsplitting attitudes toward sex and procreation are mostly as unrelenting as ever. The encyclical can thus be seen as either a very brave statement or yet another instance of that absolute Caesaro-Papism that has periodically daunted the faithful since the death of Constantine. > > With respect to individual conduct, Veritatis Splendor stands on two fundamental assertions: that certain acts are always “intrinsically evil” and that the church’s moral teachings are firmly based in scripture and “tradition” and are, therefore, not negotiable. > > The first assertion is a replay of the old pre-Vatican II attacks on “situational ethics.” Yet Christ himself clearly taught out of real-fife situations. No moral act can be isolated from its temporal and human context. As for tradition," Catholic teachings have been by no means cast in stone. Saint Thomas Aquinas taught with respect to abortion that people are given souls only when the fetus bears recognizable human features. The church later realized that new findings in embryology made it more prudent to teach that the soul is infused at conception. Quite reasonable as a revised view, but surely only God can know the truth. > > The church taught for centuries that lending money for interest (usury) was sinful. The doctrine was allowed to lapse in the 15th century, with momentous consequences for modern economic practice. If the church can change its tack on questions such as this, why is it still so unyielding on questions related to contraception and masturbation? > > Tragically, sexual conduct remains the central fixation of Catholicism. The coital obligations the church demands have grown in complexity as the scientific manipulation of reproduction has become more ingenious. The seductiveness of an agnostic science at odds with rigid theological intransigence produces the sort of tense dilemma that works against true conjugal love and the spontaneity that true conjugal love requires. Virtue, as Aquinas once observed, should lie in the good rather than the difficult. > > Homosexuality is now belatedly recognized as an unavoidable state, but unfortunate Christian gay folk must still conduct themselves as neuters. Recent biological findings that masturbation can have a “clearing” function that can actually ally assist conception makes the categorization of it as an “intrinsically disordered act” more absurd than ever. No wonder modem Western apostates have lately surrendered to libertine ways. A morally negative Christianity - one that emphasizes too many don’ts - is reaping in rebellion a harvest it has long sown by its intricate demands. I also found a link to [a Catholic forum with answers to somebody asking: "Is masturbation ever a mortal sin? ’](http://www.catholic-forum.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/800.html) The answers (a big resounding yes) cite recent and less recent encyclics, the Catechism and official viewpoints of Church officials (who, as we know, can all speak directly for Jesus :rolleyes: ). ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/76 "2004-11-02T09:24:37Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > A great many cultures and religions have told, and are still telling, people, especially young people, that Touching Yourself is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. > > Why? Maybe because some religions prohibit anything that might be pleasurable, including sweets, secular reading, and clothes that let you breathe comfortably? Maybe it’s the way we were all brought up, but if there are a bunch of people in a room, and one of them starts masturbating in front of the others, it would be hard for the others to just continue regular conversation. If he/she does something else that is pleasurable to him/her (eating sweets, reading a book, etc), there is no problem, and the others can continue their conversation. But for some reason, if a woman just slips her fingers down her panties and starts masturbating in front of the other people in the room, it cannot be ignored. Why is that? Theoretically speaking, why can’t we treat it the same as if she was eating a very tasty cake? The answer to this may help us understand the answer to the original question in the OP, that is, “why a great many cultures and religions have told, and are still telling, people, especially young people, that Touching Yourself is Wrong” If mastubating gives people a kind of pleasure that makes others uncomfortable, then it must make people uncomfortable to think that their son or daughter is having this pleasure, even if it is done in private. So, maybe the question becomes, why does mastubating give people a kind of pleasure that makes others uncomfortable? (as opposed to other pleasures which don’t make people uncomfortable) ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/77 "2004-11-02T09:44:44Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Maybe it’s the way we were all brought up, but if there are a bunch of people in a room, and one of them starts masturbating in front of the others, it would be hard for the others to just continue regular conversation. > > If mastubating gives people a kind of pleasure that makes others uncomfortable, then it must make people uncomfortable to think that their son or daughter is having this pleasure, even if it is done in private. > > So, maybe the question becomes, why does mastubating give people a kind of pleasure that makes others uncomfortable? (as opposed to other pleasures which don’t make people uncomfortable) Whoa ! That comparison doesn’t hold up. Most people would get uncomfortable when somebody with them in the room sits down and takes a dump. In todays’ culture, such acts are _private_. Not condemned, but private. What kind of parent would rather have their seven-year olds stop having bowelmovements alltogether, just because they no longer change the kids diapers? Actually, such customs are heavily culture bound. I’ve seen in museums pottychairs designed for generals so they could sit down and have a dump without ahving to remove themselves from their staffmeeting. Norbert Elias book on civilisation quoted an early etiquettebook (I’ll find the cite if anyone asks me too) that asked men not ot masturbate on the dinnertable. Apparently, that was such a normal practice an explicit rule against it was necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/78 "2004-11-02T09:55:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What’s the latest take (of the RC Church) on this? Masturbating oneself is a mortal sin, but if you are a priest, masturbating an altar boy only gets you transferred. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/79 "2004-11-02T13:57:51Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Whoa ! That comparison doesn’t hold up. Most people would get uncomfortable when somebody with them in the room sits down and takes a dump. In todays’ culture, such acts are _private_. Not condemned, but private. I would claim that masturbating is closer to enjoying a cake than it is to taking a dump. Taking a dump or urinating necessarily involves the excretion of odorous fluids and solids, and that is why those acts are private. Masturbation, especially female masturbation, does not necessarily involve the excretion of odorous fluids and solids, so I don’t see the difference between this and eating a cake, for example. And if you object that the person’s hands will get dirty, what about remote-controlled vibrators in women’s underware? That is, there are some gadgets that enable a woman or her partner to press a button and it activates a small vibrator in the woman’s underware. If someone openly does this at a dinner party, and the woman is enjoying herself, why should people consider this awkward? How is this different than other ways of enjoying herself ? (like reading a good book or eating delicious food) I should note that I would find it awkward myself, but I can’t seem to find a good enough reason for it. > [@](#): > > Actually, such customs are heavily culture bound. I’ve seen in museums pottychairs designed for generals so they could sit down and have a dump without ahving to remove themselves from their staffmeeting. > Norbert Elias book on civilisation quoted an early etiquettebook (I’ll find the cite if anyone asks me too) that asked men not ot masturbate on the dinnertable. Apparently, that was such a normal practice an explicit rule against it was necessary. If you can dig up a cite, that would be very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857/80 "2004-11-02T14:10:30Z")
Okay, so you argue taking a dump is necessary, but masturbation is voluntary. And therefore, peoples aversion to seeing someone masturbate, signifies we feel at a gut level that masturbation is “bad”. How’s about another example then: heavy french kissing? If I were at a dining table and a couple at the same table started some heavy French kissing, I’d definately feel uncomfortable. They, obviously, had forgotten about my existence (which is impolite) or are sending out a signal that they want to be alone (which makes me feel uncomfortable). Besides, watching anyone but tastefully filmed moviestars at it is not an pleasant sight (slobbering and wet, ew). Kissing is voluntary. Would I want my kids to stop French kissing their loved ones when they were alone? Sure not. I would teach them not to do it at the dinner table, in front of their reatives though. Kissing, like masturbation is _private_. Not bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-stigma-about-masturbation/271857.md?page=5)