# Why the sudden surge in Xenophobia? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155 "2010-08-04T15:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/121 "2010-08-05T15:33:17Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > they know the endless introduction of new immigrants is creating racial and ethnic fault lines that are likely to give way under stress. Hence the current effort to preemptively rupture those lines by rewriting the constitution? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/122 "2010-08-05T15:48:06Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > > > Most whites know that becoming a minority can never be a good thing for us … > > Us? What ‘us’ is that. All us whites? We all have a shared vested in interest in not having un-whites around us? > > . Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites benefit from giving up their status as the dominant majority. I’ve often asked this question here and elsewhere, and all I get is either a lot of happy talk about how beautiful diversity is supposed to be or a lot of snarling about what a racist monster I am. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/123 "2010-08-05T15:51:55Z")
Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites get the right to claim dominance over non-whites because there are currently more of us. What is this, some existential king-of-the-hill game to you? Did you not get the memo? All men are created equal. This isn’t the United States of White America, you know. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/124 "2010-08-05T15:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not black, but there’s a whole lot of times I wish I could say I’m not white Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention _Freak Out_, 1966 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/125 "2010-08-05T16:12:08Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Most whites know that becoming a minority can never be a good thing for us… I think it’s fair to say (I hope, anyway) that I do not have a reputation here or anywhere as a player of the race card nor an apologist for illegal immigration. So with that as a backdrop, let me say: yeah, being in the minority hasn’t been a good thing for us Hispanics, pal. So why do you assume that because whites are the majority now, they have some special entitlement to continue in that role? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/126 "2010-08-05T16:12:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Then I’m sure you can provide a citation. **elucidator** , this seems like a good time to mention that I find your indomitable optimism inspiring. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/127 "2010-08-05T16:29:30Z")
There was a distinct change in the tone of the public discourse on race and nationality starting around the time that George Bush became President. All of a sudden political comments that pushed what used to be the polite boundaries of bigotry or class superiority or xenophobia became commonplace among mainstream Republican politicians and speakers; it was no longer confined to the fringe. And they never got called on it, by the so-called left-wing media or anyone else. It gradually got more and more blatant. Take the Allen guy who lost for Senator in Virginia a few years back, and his use of the word “macaca” (monkey) to refer to a journalist of Indian ethnicity who was following him around with a video camera. In 1990 someone like him might have thought that, but he’d never have said it, not even in front of a friendly crowd. By 2006 he was comfortable saying it. (If it happened today, I bet he wouldn’t bother with the various dodges he indulged in; he’d just go off on a tangent about immigrants stealing “your” country or something, and it’s OK to use a slur if you have a real issue you’re talking about. Anyway.) Allen lost, but only barely. All along the right wing talkers have been getting more and more aggressive with the race-baiting, the ginning up of fears of illegal immigrants, and the stoking of resentment and fear against anyone who is not just like them. The politicians have been following happily along in their wake. And then Barack Obama won the Presidency, and every racist, closet racist and “I’m not racist, but I think Limbaugh really has a point” sort of person in the country lost his or her every-loving mind. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/128 "2010-08-05T16:29:50Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Us? What ‘us’ is that. All us whites? We all have a shared vested in interest in not having un-whites around us? I’m afraid I’m going to have to opt-out of his White People For the Win! moment. The man I’m in love with and may at some point marry isn’t white, so not having him around would be awkward. And we’d need two sets of china! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/129 "2010-08-05T16:32:08Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites benefit from giving up their status as the dominant majority. I’ve often asked this question here and elsewhere, and all I get is either a lot of happy talk about how beautiful diversity is supposed to be or a lot of snarling about what a racist monster I am. In what sense are whites the dominant majority? Who is white? Are Latinos white? People with less than 50% African ancestry? Indians? Chinese? Let’s start off with a simple example: Bill Richardson. He looks white, and he’s got a “white” name, but he says he’s Hispanic. Is _he_ white? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/130 "2010-08-05T16:32:22Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > > > Us? What ‘us’ is that. All us whites? We all have a shared vested in interest in not having un-whites around us? > > > > . > > Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites benefit from giving up their status as the dominant majority. I’ve often asked this question here and elsewhere, and all I get is either a lot of happy talk about how beautiful diversity is supposed to be or a lot of snarling about what a racist monster I am. It’s not a zero sum game. “We” don’t lose just because someone else wins. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/131 "2010-08-05T16:32:42Z")
I recommend that you all watch [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN1kp1ggWyM) video. Even though it features talking cartoon cats, it’s a brilliant and insightful analysis of the immigration issue. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/132 "2010-08-05T16:37:24Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Most whites know that becoming a minority can never be a good thing for us, that the rate of immigration (both legal and illegal) passed the rate of assimililation a long time ago, and that the country is becoming Balkanized. At last, a conservative (if I may be so presumptuous) admits what he believes is at the heart of the issue. It’s refreshing to see someone decide not to pollute a topic with obfuscation, prevarication, and moving the goalposts for a change. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > They see that America is slowly becoming a third world country, and they know the endless introduction of new immigrants is creating racial and ethnic fault lines that are likely to give way under stress. This may be a concern for them, but I don’t believe it to be a major issue for them. At least it’s not expressed widely that I’ve seen. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > They know as well that the endless stream of immigrants complicates every other problem we have such as unemployment, failing schools, environmental degradation, overloaded infrastructure and social support systems, and crime. They know no such thing. They believe it, but they don’t know it. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > This is common sense, not racism and xenophobia. In the current state of affairs, it’s both actually. You all but state it in the first line of your post. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Snarling about how racist and xenophobic this common sense attitude is supposed to be ony shows the depths of the loathing and contempt that most white progressives feel for their fellow whites. No, it’s an indication of how racist and xenophobic people, even whites, believe this attitude to be. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/133 "2010-08-05T16:40:12Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > All along the right wing talkers have been getting more and more aggressive with the race-baiting, the ginning up of fears of illegal immigrants, and the stoking of resentment and fear against anyone who is not just like them. The politicians have been following happily along in their wake. And then Barack Obama won the Presidency, and every racist, closet racist and “I’m not racist, but I think Limbaugh really has a point” sort of person in the country lost his or her every-loving mind. Well, I think that as people basically lose hope that they are mainstream, they can become comfortable being seen as radical in ways they couldn’t before and, of course, people who feel like they are on the losing side of a groundswell can get more and more vocal. I think we can see that in the gay marriage fights, for example. The rhetoric gets ratcheted up in an attempt to stall acceptance, but I think the James Dobsons of the world really do see the writing on the wall. That’s my feeling on it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/134 "2010-08-05T16:42:17Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Most whites know that becoming a minority can never be a good thing for us . . . Wait – just why, exactly, would it be a **bad** thing? Sure, a lot of the white middle class and working class have slid down the socioeconomic ladder in the past few decades; but **not** because of any racial outnumbering. The reasons are entirely different. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > . . . that the rate of immigration (both legal and illegal) passed the rate of assimililation a long time ago, and that the country is becoming Balkanized. No, not Balkanized – **Brazilianized.** From [_The Next American Nation,_](http://www.amazon.com/NEXT-AMERICAN-NATION-Nationalism-Revolution/dp/0684825031) by Michael Lind: > [@](#): > > The chief danger confronting the twenty-first century United States is not Balkanization but what might be called Brazilianization. By Brazilianization I mean not the separation of cultures by race, but the separation of races by class. As in Brazil, a common American culture could be indefinitely compatible with a blurry, informal caste system in which most of those at the top of the social hierarchy are white, and most brown and black Americans are on the bottom – _forever._ Behind all the boosterish talk about the wonders of the new American rainbow is the reality of enduring racial division by class, something that multicultural education initiatives and racial preference policies do not begin to address. > > In the absence of sustained popular pressure from below or concern about America’s international status, the white overclass has no incentive to combat Brazilianization in the United States. For one thing, any serious effort to reduce racial separation by class would inevitably mean higher taxes on the affluent – not just the rich, but the politically powerful upper-middle class. What is more, the dominance of the white oligarchy in American politics is strengthened by the emergent dynamics of a polarized society. In a more homogeneous society, the increasing concentration of wealth and power at the top might produce a populist reaction by the majority. But in a society like that of present-day America where a small, homogeneous oligarchy confronts a diverse population that shares a common national culture but remains divided along racial lines, the position of the outnumbered elite can be very secure. This is because the resentments caused by economic decline are likely to be expressed as hostility between the groups at the bottom, rather than as a rebellion against the top. In the Los Angeles riot, black, Hispanic, and white rioters turned on Korean middlemen, rather than march on Beverly Hills. Note that, even then, most white Americans will be at the middle or bottom of the hierarchy; there ain’t much room at the top. You should be thinking in terms of class, not race, **LonesomePolecat.** > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > They see that America is slowly becoming a third world country . . . Yes, it is; but **not** because of an inundation of Third Worlders. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > . . . and they know the endless introduction of new immigrants is creating racial and ethnic fault lines that are likely to give way under stress. They know as well that the endless stream of immigrants complicates every other problem we have such as unemployment, failing schools, environmental degradation, overloaded infrastructure and social support systems, and crime. Similar arguments were made against every wave of immigrants in America’s post-independence history, from the Irish to the Jews. Eventually they all assimilated and became productive members of our society and enrichers of our culture. Sometimes full assimilation took longer than you might expect – Lawrence Welk spoke with a foreign accent because he grew up in a small town in North Dakota where nobody spoke anything but German – but, so what? I’m sure nobody wishes his family had stayed in Germany. How does the current wave of immigration differ from any of the previous waves? > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > This is common sense, not racism and xenophobia. Snarling about how racist and xenophobic this common sense attitude is supposed to be ony shows the depths of the loathing and contempt that most **white** progressives feel for their fellow **whites.** :rolleyes: Oh. I see. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/135 "2010-08-05T16:47:30Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > …but I think the James Dobsons of the world really do see the writing on the wall… And its in Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/136 "2010-08-05T16:47:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Then I’m sure you can provide a citation. Other than that guy you work with, of course. I’m sure I _can_ find a cite, but I don’t care enough to do that. I’ve got a respected, credible primary source sitting right next to me. I’m not going to go hunt around on the internet for an inferior source just to win an internet argument. So I’m going to drop a line that I don’t think I’ve ever said before: “My post is my cite”. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/137 "2010-08-05T16:48:07Z")
If America is becoming a third world country (and in my more pessimistic moments I do believe it’s trending that way), it’s not because of the people who live here. It’s because of cynical right-wing politicians (aided and abetted by plenty of the self-proclaimed centrists and even some of the so-called left wing) who give their all to favor policies that bring about extreme income disparity, the destruction of our economic base, and the ransacking of our environment. Then those same politicians point at illegal immigrants, lazy welfare cheats, and over-entitled minorities as the source of all your problems. At worst they’re a drop in the bucket. None of those groups, even if they were everything the right wing claims they are, amount a hill of beans in terms of power to the rich bastards who are really running the show. They show up on your front porch directing your attention to the woodchuck who’s digging up your potato patch, and when you run off to chase it, they rob you blind and rape your wife. And that’s not even the worst part. The worst part is, when you come back inside, you blame it all on the woodchuck. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/138 "2010-08-05T16:52:34Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Then I’m sure you can provide a citation. > > **elucidator** , this seems like a good time to mention that I find your indomitable optimism inspiring. With all due gratitude, I point out that that is not the he that is me. And, 'struth, I am a radical progressive pessimist. Ghandi said something about working for progress and justice may, in fact, be utterly futile and pointless. But that doesn’t get you off the hook. Preach it, brother. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/139 "2010-08-05T16:53:26Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > > > Us? What ‘us’ is that. All us whites? We all have a shared vested in interest in not having un-whites around us? > > > > . > > Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites benefit from giving up their status as the dominant majority. I’ve often asked this question here and elsewhere, and all I get is either a lot of happy talk about how beautiful diversity is supposed to be or a lot of snarling about what a racist monster I am. Don’t you understand that someone concerned with preserving the “dominant majority” status of his racial/ethnic group is a racist by definition? For the rest, I think what you’re facing – and, again, seem not to understand – is **rejection of the legitimacy of your question.** “Perhaps you’d care to explain how whites benefit from giving up their status as the dominant majority.” WTF has that to do with anything?! Arguably it was good for **white** people in the pre-Civil-Rights South to keep their status as the dominant majority – to maintain Jim Crow, and maintain their own superior racial caste position over the blacks, and keep the blacks around as a pool of dirt-cheap menial labor, and enjoy the psychological benefits of a sense of superiority concomitant with white skin privilege. Arguably it was **not** good even for most whites, since racial division prevented the emergence of any trans-racial labor movement and kept poor whites **and** blacks economically dependent on the Bourbon aristocracy, who could always play the one group off against the other, divide and rule. But in either case, **Jim Crow simply was not morally defensible,** no more than slavery was. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155/140 "2010-08-05T16:54:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > The 14th Amendment is stupid and badly worded and definitely needs to be changed or repealed. > > Why does a child, born of a non-citizen automatically beomes a citizen? Even a foreigner on vacation in the USA could have a child there and the child would be a citizen. > > Many people including myself wants this abolished because it promotes foreign pregnant women to sneak across the border to have a baby on the taxpayers. Then since the woman is a mother of a citizen, she gets to stay too. Then the mother invites all of her relatives to come. > > All the welfare consumed by the invader, multiple babies and family members robs working people of their money (taxes) while forcing them to live in worse and worse conditions. > > 28 people in a two bedroom house, beer bottles in the yard, drunk drivers galore. Working meat packing plant jobs, on welfare and/or selling drugs. I know most of you on this board love “diversity” (as long as it is not in your neighborhood of course), well, this is it. Just to see what happens, and taking a wild guess at the sort of position most flag waving pseudopatriots usually take on other things, AND taking comfort in the fact that those who know my past posts will “get it”, try this then: The 2nd amendment, dealing with militias and right to bear arms, Is also stupid and badly worded and definitely needs to be changed or repealed. Many people including myself wants this abolished because it promotes shooting and robbing and murder. Do you agree? Or is one amendment more “sacred” than another, based on what you want (freedom for you and to hell with anyone else). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-sudden-surge-in-xenophobia/549155.md?page=8)