# Why the thanks for today's returning vets? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670 "2013-11-11T20:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/41 "2013-11-12T04:58:23Z")
> [@CC](#): > > If you don’t know why you’re going, and they don’t either, but someone tells you that you should put your life on the line, you should just do it??? Sorry. Don’t buy it. _Someone_? You do realize that _someone_ is actually The United States of America–the country they signed up to serve. So, to answer your question, “yes, when The United States of America asks us to put our lives on the line, we should just do it.” You don’t have to buy it. That’s just how it is. That’s the _service_ that you just can’t understand. The service is to do what the country calls upon us to do. There are some things I’d rather do than others, but whatever the country needs from me, I will give. Whatever the country asks me to do, I will do. A veteran’s service isn’t about analyzing his/her specific contributions, or calculating the impact of the missions, operations. or campaigns they took part in. The veteran’s service is measured as part of a collective role that guarantees the prosperity of the nation and secures the American way of life for all citizens. That’s why people thank them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/42 "2013-11-12T05:19:11Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Like George Orwell said, “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”, Unless those “rough men” are shooting them, dropping bombs on their homes or dragging them out of bed to be raped or tortured. And that’s what our soldiers have been doing for decades; they haven’t been fighting to make _anyone_ safe in their beds. They’ve been attacking _other_ nations, not defending anything. Again; calling for soldiers to be venerated for defending their nation means that you are calling for the veneration of _the people our soldiers have been fighting,_ whether that’s what you intend or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/43 "2013-11-12T05:36:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Again; calling for soldiers to be venerated for defending their nation means that you are calling for the veneration of _the people our soldiers have been fighting,_ whether that’s what you intend or not. What nation are we fighting? The people our soldiers are fighting are not defending any nation. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/44 "2013-11-12T05:43:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > A common misconception. About 25% of those who stepped foot in viet nam were draftees. They were about 30% of the casualties. And I’ll bet your statistics are misleading. Just because the soldier had a “RA” number doesn’t mean he was there voluntarily. It might mean he enlisted to get a better shake than if he had accepted the draft. I find it hard to believe that 75% of the military personnel would have volunteered if they didn’t have the draft breathing down their back. War and death isn’t _that_ popular. ---
**Author:** ![stoplight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@stoplight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stoplight)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/45 "2013-11-12T05:55:26Z")
Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post Again; calling for soldiers to be venerated for defending their nation means that you are calling for the veneration of the people our soldiers have been fighting, whether that’s what you intend or not. Defending their nation is the key which I suspect I could stretch to way of life. So your analogy would include the British, Canadians, South Africans who fought along side us against Nazi Germany? or are you implying Nazi soldiers equally deserved a high five for a job well done? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/46 "2013-11-12T05:56:47Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What nation are we fighting? The people our soldiers are fighting are not defending any nation. We’ve been fighting multiple nations, for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/47 "2013-11-12T05:59:18Z")
> [@stoplight](#): > > Defending their nation is the key which I suspect I could stretch to way of life. So your analogy would include the British, Canadians, South Africans who fought along side us against Nazi Germany? or you implying we are no better then Nazi Germany and Nazi deserved veneration? I’m not the person saying that soldiers should be venerated for defending their nation. But yes; if defending your nation makes a soldier admirable, then that _does_ include the soldiers of Nazi Germany and the rest. Which is of course the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/48 "2013-11-12T06:51:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We’ve been fighting multiple nations, for decades. We haven’t fought another nation for over a decade. > [@](#): > > But yes; if defending your nation makes a soldier admirable, then that does include the soldiers of Nazi Germany and the rest. Which is of course the problem. It makes a soldier admirable to the citizens who are defended, or whose interests have been served. Why is that so hard to understand? I don’t understand your leap that because a soldier who serves his country is praised by the populace he servces, then he should also be viewed admirably by the citizens of the opposing nation. What sense does that make? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/49 "2013-11-12T08:30:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not amazing, it’s common throughout history. And American soldiers haven’t been doing _that_ since WWII. Well the good news is we no longer need human beings to fight our illegitimate wars. We can use machines. Yippee. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/50 "2013-11-12T08:55:21Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > We haven’t fought another nation for over a decade. We’ve been fighting in Iraq a lot more recently than that. And no; declaring the people we torture & kill “insurgents” doesn’t make them magically not citizens of that nation. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It makes a soldier admirable to the citizens who are defended, or whose interests have been served. Why is that so hard to understand? It’s not hard to understand; but it is in no way praiseworthy. People keep trying to pretend that there’s something _noble_ about cheering on our soldiers just because they are our soldiers regardless of the harm they cause. And our soldiers haven’t been defending our interests much, either. Just that of large corporations and a few very rich people. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/51 "2013-11-12T09:50:56Z")
> [@CC](#): > As a Vet, I find it difficult to disagree with your evaluation as it was initially posted. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/52 "2013-11-12T12:51:33Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > _Someone_? You do realize that _someone_ is actually The United States of America–the country they signed up to serve. So, to answer your question, “yes, when The United States of America asks us to put our lives on the line, we should just do it.” You don’t have to buy it. That’s just how it is. That’s the _service_ that you just can’t understand. > The service is to do what the country calls upon us to do. There are some things I’d rather do than others, but whatever the country needs from me, I will give. Whatever the country asks me to do, I will do. > A veteran’s service isn’t about analyzing his/her specific contributions, or calculating the impact of the missions, operations. or campaigns they took part in. The veteran’s service is measured as part of a collective role that guarantees the prosperity of the nation and secures the American way of life for all citizens. That’s why people thank them. Fair enough. I can respect someone who puts his life on the line _for the good of his country._ Now, please explain to me why exactly it was in your country’s interest to wage the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/53 "2013-11-12T13:08:39Z")
I can respect doing a difficult and dangerous job, stepping up to do a dirty job for their country. But I also have a problem with all of the ‘protecting our freedom’ rhetoric. It seems like unnecessary over reaching to me. I totally support our troops, attend all their events, contribute to their causes etc, but when I hear that old saw about how they are protecting me and my freedoms, I always think it’s one step too far, actually diminishing them by such blatant overreaching. I understand they are willing to, should the need arise, but that doesn’t mean it’s what they are doing just by being in the service! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/54 "2013-11-12T13:29:34Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I think many of them are there because they want to be seen as “fighting men and women” and potential heroes. It’s tough when an otherwise thoughtful post has one of these in it. It’s like putting a big red zit on The Mona Lisa’s nose–makes it impossible to appreciate the rest of the sentiment. I’m always struck by folks who say stuff like, “10 years in Afghanistan / Iraq! What a waste of lives and money! Why we could have paid $X to every man, woman & child instead! We lost more soldiers in EACH of those wars than we lost civilians on 9/11–_ **Those wars were insane wastes!** _” Insane. So ALL of our political leaders we crazy? All in a conspiracy of ignorance? They weren’t keeping track of the expenses and wrecked lives on both ends of the guns? It’s a tired and trite expression, but doesn’t it make more sense to say, “You don’t know what DIDN’T happen as a result of our actions.” From what little I saw in 4 years, I can honestly say CNN\<----\>Fox probably never told us what was really going on. Many vets probably don’t really know either, but they did their bit to do the will of those who did know. It takes guts to charge, but it also takes guts to take an oath that puts your life into someone else’s hands, knowing that you might have to be a pawn in a game you’ll never understand. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/55 "2013-11-12T13:49:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The “thanks” is for volunteering to put their lives on the line. If their service was irrelevant, in your eyes, that’s not the troops’s fault… it’s their political leaders. > > So, thank the guys who put their asses on the line, and save the bitching about _why_ their asses were on the line for your Congresscritter. This is pretty much my view - the troops are there to protect us; if they’re off doing something politically questionable it’s not their fault. In fact, I’ve always been of the view that one of the ways we should “honor our troops” is by not letting politicians send them off to stupid wars (e.g. Iraq, Grenada). I remember being heartily pissed off at all those “If you question the war you’re not supporting our troops” people a decade or so ago. If you love our troops so much, stop sending them into harm’s way just so you can sit at home at shout “USA! USA! USA!” at the television. But I digress. While I do think that Americans take veneration of the military to an unnecessary extreme, I do appreciate the important work it does and the commitment to a greater cause it requires. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/56 "2013-11-12T14:23:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > … if they’re off doing something politically questionable it’s not their fault. Yes it is. People are responsible for their own actions. Unless they are conscripted, and do this stuff under threat of prison, or worse, then they are acting by choice. ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/57 "2013-11-12T14:25:49Z")
I was a draft dodger. I signed up at the draft board and walked down the hall to the Navy recruiter. Pre-lottery. I follow **CC** ’s and **der Trihs** ’s viewpoints and arguments. And I don’t want to get into a rant about the political expediency that effectively did away with the draft and turned the services into a rural, southern and western population. I believe National Service of some sort should be required. Peace Corps, USAID, Foreign Service, Military…something. The politicos should be excoriated, but leave the troops their dignity and your gratitude. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/58 "2013-11-12T14:33:13Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Yes it is. People are responsible for their own actions. Unless they are conscripted, and do this stuff under threat of prison, or worse, then they are acting by choice. No, they are serving our country by choice on the understanding that when they are sent into combat it is for a valid reason. We need a standing military (how large and how widespread is debatable, but we need the military trained and ready at all times) and we need one that isn’t going to immediately descend into squabbling and moral debates at the first sign of action. That way lies chaos and defeat. We (the voters), on the other hand, do have some control over how the troops are used. Better to blame us than the soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/59 "2013-11-12T14:36:20Z")
“Fighting for our freedom” is total bullshit. The US troops haven’t fought for our freedom since WW II. Now there is some honor in being willing to fight and die if the need arose and I respect those that make that choice. But they’re far from the only ones being willing to be in harm’s way for our sake. Coal miners have a damn risky job and those that avoid accidental death in the mines suffer early deaths due to lung disease, but their work keeps the electricity humming for a lot of us. Speaking of electricity, those utility workers have a non-trivial amount of danger in their lives, too. So do firemen and policemen. I wouldn’t want to live in a society without their services. Then there are ironworkers who make our cities possible. And we don’t need football, but there are thousands of guys who risk paralysis every weekend so we can sit on the couch and watch them. And it may not be terribly risky work, but I appreciate the hell out of the guys that keep our sewers flowing and our garbage picked up. So some members of society choose to carry weapons and put themeselves in harm’s way. Bully for them. I just don’t see the need to go all rah rah for them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/60 "2013-11-12T14:43:57Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And I’ll bet your statistics are misleading. Just because the soldier had a “RA” number doesn’t mean he was there voluntarily. It might mean he enlisted to get a better shake than if he had accepted the draft. > > I find it hard to believe that 75% of the military personnel would have volunteered if they didn’t have the draft breathing down their back. War and death isn’t _that_ popular. How is that hard to believe? 100% of the current military is volunteer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670.md?page=4)