# Why the thanks for today's returning vets? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670 "2013-11-11T20:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/61 "2013-11-12T14:49:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, they are serving our country by choice on the understanding that when they are sent into combat it is for a valid reason. Balderdash. Many Iraq war vets enlisted after the war had started, they went in knowing that the war was on, and they would likely be sent there. They don’t get to blame other people for what they did there. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/62 "2013-11-12T14:51:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We’ve been fighting in Iraq a lot more recently than that. And no; declaring the people we torture & kill “insurgents” doesn’t make them magically not citizens of that nation. > > It’s not hard to understand; but it is in no way praiseworthy. People keep trying to pretend that there’s something _noble_ about cheering on our soldiers just because they are our soldiers regardless of the harm they cause. > > And our soldiers haven’t been defending our interests much, either. Just that of large corporations and a few very rich people. You’ve been getting heat for your bashing of large groups of people and your over all negativity. Here’s your chance. Tell us about all your noble pursuits and how you are working towards making this country and the world better. Hint: posting here doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/63 "2013-11-12T14:54:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, they are serving our country by choice on the understanding that when they are sent into combat it is for a valid reason. We need a standing military (how large and how widespread is debatable, but we need the military trained and ready at all times) and we need one that isn’t going to immediately descend into squabbling and moral debates at the first sign of action. That way lies chaos and defeat. > > We (the voters), on the other hand, do have some control over how the troops are used. Better to blame us than the soldiers. Thanks for saving me the time in writing. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/64 "2013-11-12T15:03:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Unless those “rough men” are shooting them, dropping bombs on their homes or dragging them out of bed to be raped or tortured. And that’s what our soldiers have been doing for decades; they haven’t been fighting to make _anyone_ safe in their beds. They’ve been attacking _other_ nations, not defending anything. > > Again; calling for soldiers to be venerated for defending their nation means that you are calling for the veneration of _the people our soldiers have been fighting,_ whether that’s what you intend or not. Clearly you didn’t read my entire post. Go back, read it again, and then see if you have something asinine to say. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/65 "2013-11-12T15:08:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You’ve been getting heat for your bashing of large groups of people and your over all negativity. Here’s your chance. Tell us about all your noble pursuits and how you are working towards making this country and the world better. Hint: posting here doesn’t count. WTF does this have to do with _anything_? It’s proper English grammar, but it may as well be gibberish for all the sense it makes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/66 "2013-11-12T15:13:03Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > We haven’t fought another nation for over a decade. There are _still_ U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan! ---
**Author:** ![Grey\_area](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grey\_area](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey_area)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/67 "2013-11-12T15:20:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are _still_ U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan! It is my understanding that United States is not at war with the nation of Afghanistan (an ally actually?) but the insurgents within its borders. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/68 "2013-11-12T16:11:04Z")
> [@Grey\_area](#): > > It is my understanding that United States is not at war with the nation of Afghanistan (an ally actually?) but the insurgents within its borders. Yes, I wondered if he was interpreting the question that way. But you could play a lot of semantic games if you are not longer at war “with a country” as soon as you occupy and set up a friendly government. The U.S. isn’t at war with Pakistan or Yemen either. It’s still doing plenty of fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/69 "2013-11-12T16:17:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > WTF does this have to do with _anything_? It’s proper English grammar, but it may as well be gibberish for all the sense it makes. Its quite easy to understand. There is a particular poster who makes a habit of making board negative claims about the actions and motivations of vast groups of the population. One of those groups are veterans/soldiers. What he has posted here is quite mild compared to some of the hatred filled screeds he has posted. Since he feels their choice of profession is ignoble at best I am giving him the opportunity to give examples from his own life of things he has done that are noble and praiseworthy. So we can all learn from his example. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/70 "2013-11-12T16:38:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > How is that hard to believe? 100% of the current military is volunteer. Your claim was about the Vietnam era. It is not the Vietnam era anymore, perhaps you’ve noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/71 "2013-11-12T16:49:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are _still_ U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan! Yes, fighting along side Afghan citizens–the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police. We are not currently at war with any hostile nation. I fought alongside citizens of Aghanistan. I’ve stood shoulder to shoulder with the ANA combating the Taliban and other anti-Afghan forces. I’ve worked alongside the ANP and district leaders to ensure the continued safe construction of civil projects in that country. Being in a country does not mean we are at war with that country. > [@Peter Morris](#): > > Now, please explain to me why exactly it was in your country’s interest to wage the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That isn’t relevant. My country feels that it is in their best interests to do so. That’s all that matters. That’s what selfless service is all about. It’s not about “why”. Ask your elected leaders why exactly it is in the citizens’ best interests, not the soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/72 "2013-11-12T16:58:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We’ve been fighting in Iraq a lot more recently than that. And no; declaring the people we torture & kill “insurgents” doesn’t make them magically not citizens of that nation. No, but the fact that many of them are born in Chechnya who only came to Iraq to destroy it certainly means they are not citizens of Iraq. Nothing magical about that. That’s not the only country they came from, either. When I fought alongside the Iraqi Army, killing enemy who flocked to that country in order to attack its citizens and infrastructure, we were not at war with Iraq. We are allies. We’re not even at war with the dozens of nations that these combatants came from. Just because everyone is a citizen of somewhere, doesn’t mean we are at war with their country. Hell, there have been some American citizens in the Taliban. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/73 "2013-11-12T17:00:48Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes, fighting along side Afghan citizens–the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police. Yes, and fighting against some Afghan citizens (and others). I know. Maybe the bigger issue here that even if we take the question on your terms, it’s barely true - the 10-year anniversary of the invasion and the end of major combat operations, laughable as that was, was early this year. “Over a decade” doesn’t usually mean 10 years plus a couple of months. And “we haven’t fought another country in a decade” isn’t much to brag about to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/74 "2013-11-12T17:04:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The U.S. isn’t at war with Pakistan or Yemen either. It’s still doing plenty of fighting. But not fighting against the nations themselves. That’s not semantics, that’s a huge distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/75 "2013-11-12T17:07:39Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/76 "2013-11-12T17:16:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Your claim was about the Vietnam era. It is not the Vietnam era anymore, perhaps you’ve noticed. I’m sorry, not tracking. 25% of those who served in Viet Nam were drafted. 75% of those who were there were not. Some of those who did volunteer I’m sure did so to get a non-combat job. However 70% of those killed were volunteers. The largest percentage of those killed were in the Infantry. The majority of Infantry were volunteers. See how this works? > [@](#): > > I find it hard to believe that 75% of the military personnel would have volunteered if they didn’t have the draft breathing down their back. You say you find in hard to believe that 75% of the military would volunteer during war without a draft. And yet we live in a time in which 100% of our military is volunteer. No draft in sight. And we are in a time of war (although granted, operational tempo is quite low compared to several years ago). We rely on volunteers. Its actually quite difficult to join right now. Most who try don’t qualify. I’m not sure what different eras have to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/77 "2013-11-12T17:19:39Z")
> [@Marly23](#): > > And “we haven’t fought another country in a decade” isn’t much to brag about to begin with. Wasn’t trying to brag. I was just pointing out the error in **Der Trihs** ’s statement. Strange that you want to say that my claim is “barely true” because it has only been slightly longer than a decade, but you’re okay with **Der Trihs** ’s statement that “_We’ve been fighting multiple nations, for decades_” which isn’t true at all. Not even a little. But you would rather go after the statement that is “barely true” instead of the statement that “is completely false”. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/78 "2013-11-12T17:32:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You say you find in hard to believe that 75% of the military would volunteer during war without a draft. And yet we live in a time in which 100% of our military is volunteer. Hell… many soldiers joined _because_ we were at war, not despite it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/79 "2013-11-12T19:23:55Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > That isn’t relevant. My country feels that it is in their best interests to do so. That’s all that matters. That’s what selfless service is all about. It’s not about “why”. Ask your elected leaders why exactly it is in the citizens’ best interests, not the soldier. It most certainly is relevant. It goes to the entire heart of your argument. You claimed that the soldier “guarantees the prosperity of the nation and secures the American way of life for all citizens.” Having made that claim, you have to back it up. You must show that your own participation did in fact secure the American way of life. Without that, you’re just spouting slogans. The words sound noble, but do you really mean them? Have you ever stopped to think about what the words mean, and whether you really apply them? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670/80 "2013-11-12T19:39:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > 25% of those who served in Viet Nam were drafted. 75% of those who were there were not. We are going to need a definition of “drafted” and “volunteered.” What is your definition and what is the source of your statistics? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-thanks-for-todays-returning-vets/673670.md?page=5)