# Why the venom for Hillary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744 "2017-11-05T02:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/202 "2017-11-27T02:19:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The interests of the Democratic party and \*the \*Democratic candidate were _intertwined_, I hear? Oh my goodness gracious! Shame and scandal!. Ugh. Perhaps this explains it better than anything else. Some folks appear to think Hillary was the Democratic candidate before the first primary was even held. Hint: the “intertwinement agreement” Brazile was talking about was executed in Sept, 2015. That’s 2015, not 2016. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/203 "2017-11-27T02:32:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ugh. Perhaps this explains it better than anything else. Some folks appear to think Hillary was the Democratic candidate before the first primary was even held. Hint: the “intertwinement agreement” Brazile was talking about was executed in Sept, 2015. That’s 2015, not 2016. And if Bernie Sanders had been able to do more outreach into non-white communities like Vermont, Wisconsin, and much of white America, he might have, like Barack Obama, forced the establishment to backtrack on Hillary’s inevitability. That’s what Bernistas don’t understand. Bernie was mostly a white hipster candidate who had a lot of appeal to hipster, craft beer, barista progressives in white America but couldn’t gain the trust of a broader cross section of America. And like Trump’s America, Bernistas living in Bernie’s America are convinced that their beloved candidate was the “real” candidate who represented “real” America. This probably explains why Bernistas continue to rant and rave about how Hillary’s big mistake was not understanding the white working class. Pffff…like Republicans and Trump ever gave a flying fuck about white rural working class America. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/204 "2017-11-27T02:54:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Cart meet horse. Any polling reflected the party line. which she controlled. She was a party of one. She didnt control a dozen independent polling orgs, at least two of which lean GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/205 "2017-11-27T03:14:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The interests of the Democratic party and \*the \*Democratic candidate were _intertwined_, I hear? not according to Donna Brazile. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/206 "2017-11-27T04:16:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > not according to Donna Brazile. To wit, the specific scenario she described in her recent book is that while the other candidates (O’Malley and Sanders) had memoranda of understanding with the DNC about fundraising if they got the nomination, Clinton had a deal with the DNC a year or so in advance by which she would handle some of their debts in exchange for greater control over the organization. Brazile claimed that aside from affecting the nomination process itself, Clinton’s actions also jeopardized down-ticket races by steering more funds toward the presidential campaign and ineptly micromanaging all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/207 "2017-11-27T10:17:00Z")
Why the venom? My guess is that the people who hate her the most are ashamed of how they only claim to be Christian yet act in the most un-Christian manner possible while Ms. Clinton actually has done Christian things, forgiving her husband for one, not that it’s any of their business. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/208 "2017-11-27T12:31:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Why the venom? My guess is that the people who hate her the most are ashamed of how they only claim to be Christian yet act in the most un-Christian manner possible while Ms. Clinton actually has done Christian things, forgiving her husband for one, not that it’s any of their business. Hold on. So you’re saying that people hate Hillary because she’s such a good Christian? Now that’s a new one! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/209 "2017-11-27T13:34:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ugh. Perhaps this explains it better than anything else. Some folks appear to think Hillary was the Democratic candidate before the first primary was even held. Hint: the “intertwinement agreement” Brazile was talking about was executed in Sept, 2015. That’s 2015, not 2016. Sanders was not a Democrat. You could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/210 "2017-11-27T14:24:45Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There’s a blue arrow in the above quote box. Click the arrow; read my post; make a retraction. [FactCheck](http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/clinton-and-economic-growth-in-the-90s/) ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/211 "2017-11-27T14:33:36Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Hold on. So you’re saying that people hate Hillary because she’s such a good Christian? Now that’s a new one! Just many of conservative ones, her not being a true Christian (whatever that is) and all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/212 "2017-11-27T14:51:12Z")
Right, she doesn’t hate blacks and gays and the poor like Jesus taught. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/213 "2017-11-27T15:19:59Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Hold on. So you’re saying that people hate Hillary because she’s such a good Christian? Now that’s a new one! Nah, just that she’s a better Christian than the haters are. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/214 "2017-11-27T15:23:45Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nah, just that she’s a better Christian than the haters are. LOL. Of all the various reasons offered for why people dislike Clinton, yours deserves some sort of award for least-plausible. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/215 "2017-11-27T15:43:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Sanders was not a Democrat. You could look it up. I’m pretty sure John Mace is talking about all those other candidates who threw their hats in for the Democratic nomination: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > A total of six major candidates entered the race starting April 12, 2015, when former Secretary of State and New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton formally announced her second bid for the presidency. She was followed by Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, former Governor of Maryland Martin O’Malley, former Governor of Rhode Island Lincoln Chafee, former Virginia Senator Jim Webb and Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Lessig. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/216 "2017-11-27T15:48:30Z")
All of whom convinced essentially nobody that they were worthy of consideration. Are you really a candidate if nobody cares? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/217 "2017-11-27T17:30:02Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’m pretty sure John Mace is talking about all those other candidates who threw their hats in for the Democratic nomination: While I appreciate you pointing out the fact that there were other candidates, and while Bernie was not a member of the Democratic party, he ran on the Democratic Ticket, which made him a [Democratic Candidate.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_candidates,_2016) To argue otherwise is just silly. When they had the debates between HRC and Bernie, did they call them the Democratic Debates or did they call them the Democratic/Independent debates? Trying to weasel out of the claim about the Democratic candidate by saying Bernie wasn’t one is laughable on the face of it. The simple fact is that HRC was not the Democratic candidate in Sept 2015. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/218 "2017-11-27T17:35:12Z")
Perhaps you can cite when it was the Bernie declared himself a Democrat? I do not remember that. Also, when did he change himself back to an independent? I paid pretty close attention to the primaries and general election last year but I can’t remember when these things happened. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/219 "2017-11-27T17:38:04Z")
You really have trouble with this, don’t you? Okay, since you think it’s an actual argument: They were the debates for the Democratic nomination. Sanders indeed has never joined the party, even if you think the opposite is a “simple fact” that must be strenuously reasserted. As I said, you \*could \*look it up. How about doing yourself a favor and doing so? :rolleyes: A sad display there, dude. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/220 "2017-11-27T17:44:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Perhaps you can cite when it was the Bernie declared himself a Democrat? I don’t need to, since I never made that claim. If fact I explicitly said he wasn’t. The mistake you are making is assuming one needs to be a Democrat in order to be Democratic Candidate. We would only call Bernie an Independent Candidate if he were not running on a party ticket, which is the way he has run for the Senate in the past. But again, you can take Bernie completely out of the narrative, and it’s still wrong to say HRC was the Democratic candidate in Sept 2015. Are you agreeing with that claim? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744/221 "2017-11-27T17:53:37Z")
You were objecting to stating that Clinton was \*the \*Democratic candidate, calling it “silly”. We can all scroll up and so can you. Put the shovel down, **John**. Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. It’s true. Let that fact sink in a little before you reply; do yourself a solid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-venom-for-hillary/800744.md?page=12)