# Why the white hot fury of Clinton supporters toward Obama after the loss? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227 "2008-06-08T15:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/101 "2008-06-10T02:23:19Z")
Another thing that hurt Hillary and will hurt McCain is that they just don’t grasp that we live in age were everything they say is always available to anyone who wants to look at it. Things like the Bosnia sniper debacle or that “McCains problem with youtube” video thats been going around would never have happened on any election prior to this one. Bold faced lies can and will be caught now. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/102 "2008-06-10T02:25:46Z")
[QUOTE=DigitalC] Another thing that hurt Hillary and will hurt McCain is that they just don’t grasp that we live in age were everything they say is always available to anyone who wants to look at it. Things like the Bosnia sniper debacle or that “McCains problem with youtube” video thats been going around would never have happened on any election prior to this one. Bold faced lies can and will be caught now. [/QUOTE] The Republicans, especially, seem to have this particular disease running rampant. They haven’t quite grasped that they can’t go on a Sunday show anymore and simply deny that they said something six months ago that’s been proven false because someone, somewhere is going to find it on the internet and post it on a blog. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/103 "2008-06-10T02:28:19Z")
[QUOTE=Suse] IIt’s their own doing because…? Because they didn’t ‘see the light’ and embrace Obama? Please. [/quote] I meant it is their own doing because their states chose to flaunt party rules. Because despite knowing the penalties they chose to go ahead anyway. Because they refused to have any kind of do-over. Because they now hate caucus states despite having no issue for the last 30+ years they have been caucusing and because their own candidate, for whatever reason, chose to ignore those states in her campaign (note her own campaign people have already been quoted as saying that ignoring those states is at the very top of their list of reasons why they failed so even they recognize it as their mistake). > [@](#): > > I can sympathize with the Clinton supporters because as a middle-aged woman and feminist I am tired of being told I’m irrelevant and my time is gone, because as a working-class person I am tired of being told that the Democratic Party doesn’t have to earn my vote since they consider me an idiot who will automatically push the button for the Demo candidate whoever they may be. I am missing the part where middle-aged women are being told they are irrelevant (not being snarky…if you could explain more on that I’d be interested). As for a working class person I think the Dems expect you to pull their lever because it is precisely that group whom they (at least say) they are there to help as opposed to big business of the Republicans. That seems like earning your vote but maybe I am misunderstanding. > [@](#): > > The question was asked about ‘why the anger’? I tried to answer it with as much perspective as I can have without holding all the same opinions. I’m not trying to beat you up here. I believe most here just want their side understood. It can get a bit heated but in the end I think these threads help. They help me at least on a variety of levels in sorting out all the clamor even if it is still a bit of work to get through. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/104 "2008-06-10T02:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=DigitalC] Another thing that hurt Hillary and will hurt McCain is that they just don’t grasp that we live in age were everything they say is always available to anyone who wants to look at it. Things like the Bosnia sniper debacle or that “McCains problem with youtube” video thats been going around would never have happened on any election prior to this one. Bold faced lies can and will be caught now. [/QUOTE] True. And of course they will be replaying Rev. Wright ad nauseum for all its worth. Cuts both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/105 "2008-06-10T02:33:49Z")
Folks, I think that **Suse** is trying to explain how Hillary supporters feel–what their perceptions are. I think it would be great if we could avoid a tone of blaming the messenger. And I think it would be really great if we could get past the idea that every disgruntlement on the part of every unhappy female voter is somehow wholly traceable to the machinations of HRC. Not only is it implausible, it’s also, for strategic purposes irrelevant–the idea is to win over these voters and make them feel welcome, not to antagonize them by demonizing a woman they admire. Here’s something I read on the internet today which I think reflects how many people feel about her: \*"[Hillary Clinton] ran an historic race, a historic campaign that shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere who know now that there are no limits to their dreams. What’s more, she inspired millions of women and men with her strength, her courage, and her unyielding commitment to the causes that brought us here today – the hopes and aspirations of working Americans. “Our party and our country are stronger because of the work that Hillary Rodham Clinton has done throughout her life, and I look forward to working with her … to make sure we lay out the case for change and set a new course for this country.”\* PUMA up to their old tricks? Well, before anyone starts getting all fired up about the post-menopausal hordes, these words were uttered in today’s [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/obama_praises_c.html) by none other than Barack Obama. I find two things really bizarre about what’s going on here. First, I find it completely bizarre that people who are so clearly enthusiastic about a candidate can be so genuinely and passionately moved by his virtues and yet _so utterly incapable of emulating them_. Second, I’m just _amazed_ that this often vitriolic exchange is taking place between people whom as far as I can tell will vote for the same man, share many of the same ideals, and have everything to gain by listening to and respecting one another. Back to PUMA for a moment, if you’ll permit me. I ended up focusing on the homepage rather than the blog. What I saw was praise much like that Obama bestowed and also this: _No candidate for president should ever have to face what she faced in order to get to this place in the nomination process. No popular two-term US senator should ever be required to justify or defend his or her presence in a presidential race. No distinguished and admired American, one who represents the hopes and dreams of millions of other Americans, should ever be expected to be ashamed of him or herself for running for office, for competing strenuously, and for challenging their opponent vigorously. No former First Lady, whatever her party affiliation, personal style, or opinions, should ever be treated with scorn, disrespect, or rhetorical violence by the public institutions of American life — our media, our political parties, and our elected and appointed officials. Today is a shameful day for them."_ Maybe I’m wrong but to me these seem like the words of people dealing with a very deep sense of grievance and disappointment aggravated by a variety of complex circumstances. I don’t, in other words, think that these feelings can be reduced to Hillary’s manipulations–as though these women would be happy campers if only Hillary had left the race after Super Tuesday. Folks, every vote is going to count in this race. Do you really want even one voter who really admired Hillary and believed in her candidacy to think of Obama enthusiasts as ungenerous misogynists ready to write them off as too old or too unhip to matter? Can it possibly be that none of these people read boards like the Straight Dope? Do think if Barack were posting he’d be piling on? ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/106 "2008-06-10T02:36:24Z")
Quote the whole letter: > [@](#): > > When this committee stripped us of 100% of our delegates last year, some members summed up their reasoning by saying, “The rules are the rules.” Unfortunately, the rules did not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina when they, too, violated the DNC calendar by moving from their assigned dates. [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/17/776838.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/17/776838.aspx) And I believe you are correct in saying that the Republican party was responsible for moving the primary forward. > [@](#): > > Oh, and when it comes to disenfranchising voters the candidate who actually did so was…Clinton. > > Clinton sued Nevada to keep a certain group (whose union had endorsed Obama) from voting. The teachers union sued Nevada, not Clinton. And not to keep the Culinary Workers from voting, but because > [@](#): > > The lawsuit argues that the Nevada Democratic Party’s decision, decided late last year, to create at-large precincts inside nine Las Vegas resorts on caucus day violates the state’s election laws and creates a system in which voters at the at-large precincts can elect more delegates than voters at other precincts. The lawsuit employs a complex mathematical formula to show that voters at the other 1,754 precincts would have less influence with their votes. [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/politics/12nevada.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/politics/12nevada.html) Certainly Clinton did some things she ought not in the primary, but she shouldn’t be blamed for actions and words that are not hers. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/107 "2008-06-10T02:36:27Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] True. And of course they will be replaying Rev. Wright ad nauseum for all its worth. Cuts both ways. [/QUOTE] I agree that we’ll be seeing a lot of the “god damn america” video in coming months, but my point was more about easily proved dishonesty rather than embarrassing moments caught on tape. A video of a candidate saying one thing then saying the complete opposite, or worse denying ever saying it in the first place is pretty devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/108 "2008-06-10T02:42:29Z")
**Suse** , I just wanted to thank you for that post on the bottom of p2. It was really illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/109 "2008-06-10T02:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Dorothea Book] Maybe I’m wrong but to me these seem like the words of people dealing with a very deep sense of grievance and disappointment aggravated by a variety of complex circumstances. I don’t, in other words, think that these feelings can be reduced to Hillary’s manipulations–as though these women would be happy campers if only Hillary had left the race after Super Tuesday. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry if you see my posts as vitriolic. Perhaps they do have that flavor and I should be more careful in my writing as at heart that is not my intention. More an issue of getting carried away although I do not think I have been unduly mudslinging either. The disappointment I get and can understand. The issues, while complex, I do not get from the Clinton side of the fence. I’m sorry but I just don’t. Obama did nothing in the election to steal anything. He played within the rules and in this day-and-age of poisonous politics I think arguably stayed farther above the mess than is we have come to expect from most politicians of whatever stripe. I agree that party unity is primary. Which is why I am shocked a great many people, who by all accounts SHOULD hate Bush and by extension McCain who is promising to continue many of his policies, would be saying they will vote McCain, write in Clinton or stay home. It is here where I really just do not get it. They want to punish Obama for…what? Winning? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/110 "2008-06-10T03:01:57Z")
[QUOTE=Suse] The teachers union sued Nevada, not Clinton. And not to keep the Culinary Workers from voting, but because [/QUOTE] The teacher’s union which endorsed Clinton. It takes someone with proper standing to bring a lawsuit so it would need to be someone like them and not the campaign. While I do not know I would find it hard to believe the teacher’s union just did it all of their own accord with no input from the Clinton campaign. Even if they did go it alone Clinton could have made statements asking them not to persue the lawsuit or to find a resolution that works as opposed to, literally, disenfranchising a large group of people. She did not do that that I am aware of. Perhaps allowing those people to vote was bogus and against the rules and the lawsuit was entirely justified and correct in enforcing the rules as established. But then if enforcing the rules as established is what ought to be done we can take that forward to changing the rules as established with Fl & MI. Bottom line it looks hypocritical to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/111 "2008-06-10T03:09:39Z")
I have to admit that I’m kind of amused about the official Clinton campaign blog. Last night, when I quoted a bunch of anti-Obama stuff, the last blog entry sat with only 13 comments for a couple days. Today, it has 163 comments – obviously there was a backlog while the site censors did their magic. Whereas before the comment sections were filled with all manner of hatred for Obama and vows to never vote for him, this is what the latest blog comment section looks like… > [@](#): > > I too, along with you Hillary, will work my heart out for Obama. > […] > I thought I’d never be able to switch allegiance, but you made it easier by throwing your wholehearted support behind Obama. > […] > Together let’s work our hearts out for Senator Obama! > […] > Like you, I will work my heart out to elect Senator Obama president. I’m certain that the vast majority of the folks who support you will do the same. > […] > I will not vote against my country. > I will not vote against the 18 million people who voted for Obama > […] > Thank you so much Hillary, I respect you, love you and will stand by Barack Obama all the way as you have requested so “yes, we can.” > […] > But if she can raise herself up and keep on going, fight for what is right, so can I. Come November I will do what is right, for me, for her for the country..I’ll pull that lever for a Democrat. > […] > I stand united with you in your strong support of Senator Obama And not a single “McCain '08/Clinton 2012!!!” post in the entire section. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/112 "2008-06-10T03:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] I’m sorry if you see my posts as vitriolic. Perhaps they do have that flavor and I should be more careful in my writing as at heart that is not my intention. [/quote] **Whack-a-Mole** , I’m sorry if it seemed as though I was singling you out–that wasn’t at all my intention. But thanks very much nonetheless for your care. > [@](#): > > …I am shocked a great many people, who by all accounts SHOULD hate Bush and by extension McCain who is promising to continue many of his policies, would be saying they will vote McCain, write in Clinton or stay home. It is here where I really just do not get it. They want to punish Obama for…what? Winning? I don’t actually think that they want to punish Obama. I think they believe that the only way they can be heard is to withdraw their support. I’m not saying this makes sense; I’m only saying its the vibe I’m picking up and I think I can understand it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/113 "2008-06-10T03:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Dorothea Book] **Whack-a-Mole** I think they believe that the only way they can be heard is to withdraw their support. [/QUOTE] Thats what i don’t get, they act as if they’ve been wronged somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/114 "2008-06-10T03:39:44Z")
[QUOTE=Dorothea Book] I don’t actually think that they want to punish Obama. I think they believe that the only way they can be heard is to withdraw their support. I’m not saying this makes sense; I’m only saying its the vibe I’m picking up and I think I can understand it. [/QUOTE] Well, FWIW, your choice come November will be for Obama and not any of the goofs on this or other message boards pissing you off and per your own quotes Obama does seem to be doing his level, typically eloquent, best to hear and appeal to the Clinton voters. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/115 "2008-06-10T03:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=Dorothea Book] I don’t actually think that they want to punish Obama. I think they believe that the only way they can be heard is to withdraw their support. I’m not saying this makes sense; I’m only saying its the vibe I’m picking up and I think I can understand it. [/QUOTE] The only way they can be heard about what? What is their grievance? Why are they calling Barack Obama an “abuser?” ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/116 "2008-06-10T04:04:14Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] I agree that party unity is primary. Which is why I am shocked a great many people, who by all accounts SHOULD hate Bush and by extension McCain who is promising to continue many of his policies, would be saying they will vote McCain, write in Clinton or stay home. It is here where I really just do not get it. They want to punish Obama for…what? Winning? [/QUOTE] That is what you don’t get. It’s not about punishing Obama. It’s about punishing the party. It’s about finding a place that makes them feel that they are respected, listened to, and welcomed. If Obama can do that, he may get their votes, if he can overcome the perception of inexperience. If not, McCain’s already extending a welcome. Regarding your other question, I’m not sure I can even describe it. (I just tried, and abandoned a very long attempt.) Maybe one of our more eloquent women could do it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/117 "2008-06-10T04:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=Suse] If not, McCain’s already extending a welcome. [/QUOTE] This is the puzzler, actually. There is no way that anyone who is actually concerned about feminism or women’s issues (including abortion) could possibly imagine that McCain is actually welcoming them sincerely into the Republican Party, along with all of their feminism and concerns about women’s issues (including abortion). McCain is not pro-choice, regardless of the blatherskite he’s trying to put out there. Choosing McCain because you think he (and the Republican Party) might actually listen to you better than Obama or the Democratic Party will is not really that smart a deal if you were to look at it objectively, once the disappointment of Clinton’s loss is past. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/118 "2008-06-10T04:22:03Z")
[QUOTE=Suse] I’m at a disadvantage here, as I am being asked to argue a viewpoint that isn’t my own in terms of the caucuses and MI/FL. The Brazile and Dean comments did piss me off. [/quote] Sorry – I should’ve been more clear that my questions were mostly rhetorical. I’m not sure which Brazile and Dean comments you’re referring to. > [@Suse](#): > > No one’s asking you to coddle anyone. Just leave the Clinton supporters alone; stay off their blogs with the taunts and insults. (Not YOU specifically, Obama supporters in general, at least the ones who invade the Clinton supporters’ blogs. What is the point in that? Do they really think that insulting Clinton is going to win hearts and minds?) Just let them be and let them do what they need to do, which is vent. Anyone who’s going to a Clinton blog and taunting them or insulting Clinton is an ass. For the record, though, apparently they’re not even willing to listen to reasonable requests from their own long-term posters. [Here’s a guy who was banned](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jeffwoloson/gG5BGP) from a board he considered home, for daring to say he would be following Hillary’s lead in supporting Obama. I just want to make clear that the rest of your reply was in response to someone else’s post(s), so I can’t answer to those. [QUOTE=Dorothea Book] Folks, I think that **Suse** is trying to explain how Hillary supporters feel–what their perceptions are. I think it would be great if we could avoid a tone of blaming the messenger. [/quote] I’m not blaming the messenger at all, merely pointing out what I perceive to be the misplacement of the targets of Hillary’s supporters’ anger. > [@Dorothea Book](#): > > And I think it would be really great if we could get past the idea that every disgruntlement on the part of every unhappy female voter is somehow wholly traceable to the machinations of HRC. Not only is it implausible, it’s also, for strategic purposes irrelevant–the idea is to win over these voters and make them feel welcome, not to antagonize them by demonizing a woman they admire. I don’t believe anyone made that allegation. As for me, I attributed the debacle of Florida and Michigan becoming a circus 100% to Hillary, and I stand by that. Other sources of anger are clearly coming from other places as well, such as the rude Fox broadcasters, for instance. And although it may be irrelevant to winning over her voters, this isn’t a thread intended for that purpose, so it’s perfectly appropriate to have this discussion _here_, as opposed to, as **Suse** so rightly points out, on one of the Hillary boards. > [@Dorothea Book](#): > > Here’s something I read on the internet today which I think reflects how many people feel about her: > > \*"[Hillary Clinton] ran an historic race, a historic campaign that shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere who know now that there are no limits to their dreams. What’s more, she inspired millions of women and men with her strength, her courage, and her unyielding commitment to the causes that brought us here today – the hopes and aspirations of working Americans. > > “Our party and our country are stronger because of the work that Hillary Rodham Clinton has done throughout her life, and I look forward to working with her … to make sure we lay out the case for change and set a new course for this country.”\* > > PUMA up to their old tricks? > > Well, before anyone starts getting all fired up about the post-menopausal hordes, these words were uttered in today’s [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/obama_praises_c.html) by none other than Barack Obama. Why would anyone doubt that Barack Obama would have kind things to say about Hillary Clinton? Why would that praise get anyone here “all fired up about the post-menopausal hordes”? I don’t think I understand what your point was. > [@Dorothea Book](#): > > I find two things really bizarre about what’s going on here. First, I find it completely bizarre that people who are so clearly enthusiastic about a candidate can be so genuinely and passionately moved by his virtues and yet _so utterly incapable of emulating them_. How is having this discussion, in this particular forum, not emulating Barack Obama? Are we never, ever, from here on out, allowed to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the temper tantrums that some, _some_, of Clinton’s supporters are throwing? That’s what this thread is for. If you want to see a thread praising Hillary Clinton, I’d like to direct you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=470992). > [@Dorothea Book](#): > > Back to PUMA for a moment, if you’ll permit me. I ended up focusing on the homepage rather than the blog. What I saw was praise much like that Obama bestowed and also this: > > _No candidate for president should ever have to face what she faced in order to get to this place in the nomination process. No popular two-term US senator should ever be required to justify or defend his or her presence in a presidential race. No distinguished and admired American, one who represents the hopes and dreams of millions of other Americans, should ever be expected to be ashamed of him or herself for running for office, for competing strenuously, and for challenging their opponent vigorously. No former First Lady, whatever her party affiliation, personal style, or opinions, should ever be treated with scorn, disrespect, or rhetorical violence by the public institutions of American life — our media, our political parties, and our elected and appointed officials. Today is a shameful day for them."_ > > Maybe I’m wrong but to me these seem like the words of people dealing with a very deep sense of grievance and disappointment aggravated by a variety of complex circumstances. I don’t, in other words, think that these feelings can be reduced to Hillary’s manipulations–as though these women would be happy campers if only Hillary had left the race after Super Tuesday. I won’t pick that whole PUMA statement apart, but suffice it to say, there are parts I agree with and parts I take issue with. But I also don’t see where anyone has claimed that the hurts these people are feeling are entirely due to Hillary’s manipulations. However, some of them are. And it’s those instance where I think Hillary has an obligation to do her part to help heal those wounds. I don’t think anyone else is in a position to do so. How can _I_ help Clinton’s supporters feel better about what happened in Florida and Michigan? I can’t. I can point out until I’m blue in the face that Hillary used false premises and fake concern to get them all in a tizzy, hoping she could drum up enough emotional currency to get things changed in her favor. But as we both know, _that_ tack isn’t going to work. No, the _only_ person who stands a chance of getting through to the people who feel hurt by that, is the person who caused that hurt – Hillary. Clearly she’s not to be expected to apologize for any and every hurt her supporters feel; as I’ve already acknowledged, not all of them came from her. But this was a BIG one, and this was the one I was primarily responding to above. I think she has a responsibility to accept her own part in some of the aspects of the pain her supporters are feeling, and be the one to help get them over it. Knowing what I do of her, I have no doubt that we’ll be seeing at least a degree of that over the next few weeks and months (though I hold out no hope that she’ll speak out about FL & MI in particular). Here’s to a more hopeful tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/119 "2008-06-10T04:23:24Z")
…and just when I give up, I find something that speaks to me. > [@](#): > > Most voters, said Mellman, the Democratic pollster, are looking for a candidate who can forge an emotional connection with them from [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-mccain-women-jun06,0,5085404.story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-mccain-women-jun06,0,5085404.story) I don’t know that voters do it consciously, but this explains my feelings of frustration to me. I’ve honestly considered not voting because I can’t connect with either candidate. And before you start to berate me for not being logical, it’s not about logic. And it has to come from either Obama or McCain, not their supporters, or it won’t work. It won’t please you and it isn’t pretty, but it feels like truth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227/120 "2008-06-10T04:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Suse] I don’t know that voters do it consciously, but this explains my feelings of frustration to me. I’ve honestly considered not voting because I can’t connect with either candidate. And before you start to berate me for not being logical, it’s not about logic. [/quote] Way to shatter those stereotypes about emotional, irrational women. Here’s a very simple question: do you want to keep the right to choose or do you want to lose it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-white-hot-fury-of-clinton-supporters-toward-obama-after-the-loss/452227.md?page=7)