# Why the Writer's Strike pisses me off **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665 "2007-11-08T16:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/21 "2007-11-08T17:50:17Z")
This OP is absurd. Writers are just as important to a production as any other part - acting, directing, etc. Asking for a fair piece of the pie is not “whining.” Are you saying you’ve never “whined” to your boss for a raise to reflect your market value? ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/22 "2007-11-08T18:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] And I work in a library, so I’ve got plenty of books at home, thanks. [/QUOTE] Lucky you! I work in an office, so all I’ve got at home is lots and lots of office supplies. I could grab a computer I guess, but I think they’d notice. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/23 "2007-11-08T18:22:40Z")
Ronald Moore from _Battlestar Galactica_ illustrates the situation nicely: > [@](#): > > Ronald D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica): “At Battlestar, we had a very specific situation last year, dealing with webisodes, which opened my eyes to the problems. When we were approached to do Galactica webisodes, the studio’s position was they didn’t want to pay anyone to do it—they considered it promotional material. They weren’t going to pay any of the writers or the actors or the directors to do it, which we thought was crazy. We refused to do it, and eventually came to an accommodation where they said they would pay us, but then when we were almost done, they decided they weren’t going to credit anybody. They weren’t going to acknowledge anybody who wrote it. And then I refused to deliver the webisodes, and they came and took them anyway, which is their right since they own the show…but it really made me aware of these issues. I mean, my staff writer, who is the lowest man on the totem pole, they want him to do all this work for another media, not pay him for it, and then make money off of his work. Ultimately, that’s why we’re here, because that’s just wrong.” And _The Office_’s Greg Daniels: > [@](#): > > As for why he’s on the line, Daniels said: “The Office is a perfect example of a show that has a vested interest in the issues on the table. We’re one of the highest downloads on iTunes. We made a lot of money there, and the creative people didn’t see any of it. And this is the future of the television business. People are going to sit in front of a box that has computer guts inside and watch their shows, and just because it’s not called a TV, it doesn’t apply to our contract. All we’re saying is that it’s the same thing.” ([Cite](http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=117e4468-9709-4b35-8f4d-dcefa652fc3e)) ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/24 "2007-11-08T18:35:06Z")
Exactly, \*\*gallows fodder \*\* - the networks are making money off the internet downloads, the website materials, the streaming (advertising money)… and we’re seeing NONE of it. They make us write materials for web-based episodes, web scripts, and all that but don’t pay us for it (or say they will and then don’t but take the material anyway.) All this because these new platforms didn’t exist when the last agreements were put in place. The last proposal the AMPTP gave us had a clause in it that said they wanted to have the right to use any and all of our work, on any and all platforms (including streaming media, downloads, etc.) in their entirety – including theatrical releases and full television episodes – for PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES (what does THAT mean?) without paying residuals or anything at all. In other words, they want to get rid of residuals all together and this would be a way to do it. They also wanted us to agree to a “window of free reuse” where they could put content online without paying residuals. Um… no? I mean, what would be the difference, right? Times change. Adjustment is necessary. The AMPTP is not offering adjustment. In fact, they’re offering a step BACKWARDS (taking away residuals and 85% rollback on some things – um… what?) As for “whiny writers”, to be honest, most people have no clue who the HELL we are, or who the hell we were until now. Seriously. Who the hell knows who writes Leno’s monologues? Heck, most people didn’t even know what this strike actually meant for television shows in general. So we can’t be all that whiny in the first place. Actors? Well, that’s a different matter… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/25 "2007-11-08T18:41:28Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] **3. Writers are a dime a dozen and could be easily replaced.** [/QUOTE] What an utterly bizarre thing to believe. When a show is really good, good writing is almost always one of the foremost reasons (if not _the_ foremost). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/26 "2007-11-08T18:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] The writers “produced” nothing. [/QUOTE] You’re not gonna win any arguments by making an asinine statement like this. All they do is produce. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/27 "2007-11-08T18:59:56Z")
Another writer checking in here (NB: I’ve never written for television. I do books, magazines, and newspapers). Let me explain a little bit about why writers expect residuals. I’ll do this with an example from one of my children’s books. There are three primary people involved in the creation of one of my books: me, the illustrator, and the editor. We are each paid differently. The editor is a salaried employee of the publishing house. She gets a fixed paycheck, and works on multiple books at a time. I don’t know her annual salary. The illustrator is paid a flat fee for the book. On the last book, he received about $12,000 for his work. It took him a few months (I have no idea how many hours). Once he finished with it, he never saw another dime. I get paid a royalty with an advance. I got a check for $4,000 up front on this particular book. I then get about 75 cents for each book sold (it’s really more complex than this, with sliding scales and such, but let’s keep it simple). Think of the advance as a prepayment of some of the royalty money. That means if the book sells 5,333 copies or less, I’ll never see another penny, and I will end up getting paid 1/3 of what the illustrator made for arguably equivalent work. If the book sells 16,000 copies, then the illustrator and I make the same amount, although his was paid up front and most of mine will be spread out over months or years. Sure, I could well be making residuals from that book 10 years from now, but that’s why I accepted the low advance in the first place. It’s a gamble writers take. Assume that the illustrator and I can each produce four books a year. The first year we work together, he’ll make $48,000 and I’ll make $16,000. I’d bloody well better have another job. By the time we have a dozen books out, my residuals are paying the bills and I can drop the other job. Does that help in understanding the financial aspects of being a freelance writer? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/28 "2007-11-08T19:01:47Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] **3. Writers are a dime a dozen and could be easily replaced.** [/QUOTE] My brother’s in Hollywood right now, hoping to get established as a writer/director/comedian. He hasn’t sold a script or had a union staff job yet, so he’s not yet a member of the WGA. I asked him what he was going to do with the strike, and he said he would probably try to find work on a non-union show, which apparently is considered different than scabbing for a union show (ie, he’ll still be able to join the union later). In fact, he said, there really are no scab writers, because the producers put together a writing staff to get specific personalities and establish a specific creative atmosphere, pretty much the same as the actors. So no, even ignoring that few have the skills to write professionally for film or television, you can’t just replace a writer. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/29 "2007-11-08T19:06:40Z")
The OP misses several points. Pretty much anyone can write. But few people can write well. Those who have the rare skill of doing something well are going to be able to negotiate themselves a better price for their work. Writers generally do not get paid a flat fee for writing. They may get paid some money up front but the main portion of their income is a percentage of the revenue that comes from the future sale of their work. This type of contract helps motivate good work - writers who have more skill and/or put more effort into their work are rewarded by more income. So the writers are entitled to the money they get from royalties and always have been. The terms of past royalties have been determined by past contracts. Writers may feel they didn’t get the best possible terms in those contracts but they are not asking for past contracts to be rewritten or asking for more money. Royalties for work that has already been written is water under the bridge. But new contracts are currently being written and the writers are negotiating for the royalties they will be paid for their future work. In previous contracts, the studios were able to argue that they needed to earn extra profits because they were taking a risk in opening new markets and writers should accept a low royalty rate. The writers agreed to this. But the market is now firmly established and there’s no longer any risk involved. The writers are now asking for the standard rate but the studios are trying to insist on the low rate. Whining about how this is affecting your TV viewing habits is just petulance. The writers are the ones doing the work and you’re just sitting at home watching it. If anything, you as a fan owe a debt to the writers not the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/30 "2007-11-08T19:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Writers are a dime a dozen and could be easily replaced. [/QUOTE] No offense, but that’s exactly the sort of thing that a non-writer (or a writer of lackluster skills) would say. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/31 "2007-11-08T19:18:37Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] With the realization that we may not get any more Heroes episodes after December, a severely shortened 24 season or any Lost episodes period, I have come to the realization that I despise everyone involved in the writer’s strike and I put most of the blame on the writers. … **3. Writers are a dime a dozen and could be easily replaced.** Sure, the quality of some high concept shows won’t be as high with a changed staff, but can anyone honestly claim that a show like Heroes (one built on comic book mythology that is dozens of years old) would suffer? [/QUOTE] I have the solution to your problem. Since you want more Heroes episodes and writers are ‘a dime a dozen’, why don’t **YOU** write the remaining episodes? You could post them here, so we can all see how easy writing is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/32 "2007-11-08T19:28:59Z")
[This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk) lays things out simply and cleanly. [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMNePzqpzQ) is pretty good, too. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/33 "2007-11-08T19:29:07Z")
archiveguy beat me to it ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/34 "2007-11-08T19:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Another writer checking in here (NB: I’ve never written for television. I do books, magazines, and newspapers). Let me explain a little bit about why writers expect residuals. I’ll do this with an example from one of my children’s books. There are three primary people involved in the creation of one of my books: me, the illustrator, and the editor. We are each paid differently. The editor is a salaried employee of the publishing house. She gets a fixed paycheck, and works on multiple books at a time. I don’t know her annual salary. The illustrator is paid a flat fee for the book. On the last book, he received about $12,000 for his work. It took him a few months (I have no idea how many hours). Once he finished with it, he never saw another dime. I get paid a royalty with an advance. I got a check for $4,000 up front on this particular book. I then get about 75 cents for each book sold (it’s really more complex than this, with sliding scales and such, but let’s keep it simple). Think of the advance as a prepayment of some of the royalty money. That means if the book sells 5,333 copies or less, I’ll never see another penny, and I will end up getting paid 1/3 of what the illustrator made for arguably equivalent work. If the book sells 16,000 copies, then the illustrator and I make the same amount, although his was paid up front and most of mine will be spread out over months or years. Sure, I could well be making residuals from that book 10 years from now, but that’s why I accepted the low advance in the first place. It’s a gamble writers take. Assume that the illustrator and I can each produce four books a year. The first year we work together, he’ll make $48,000 and I’ll make $16,000. I’d bloody well better have another job. By the time we have a dozen books out, my residuals are paying the bills and I can drop the other job. Does that help in understanding the financial aspects of being a freelance writer? [/QUOTE] It explains why they _want_ residuals, it doesn’t explain why they’re _entitled_ to them. I’m with the OP on this. They get paid a salary up front and that’s all they’re entitled to. They’re like housepainters who get paid to paint a house and them expect to keep receiving a cut every time the house gets sold. Once a TV writer gets paid for a script, the transaction is over as far as I’m concerned. When it comes to television, most of their work sucks ass anyway. Let them flip burgers if they don’t like their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/35 "2007-11-08T19:43:51Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I have the solution to your problem. Since you want more Heroes episodes and writers are ‘a dime a dozen’, why don’t **YOU** write the remaining episodes? You could post them here, so we can all see how easy writing is. 😃 [/QUOTE] I could do it. I’ve never seen the show but the writing for most television is appalling. I could piss a better script in the snow than what I’ve seen in the average _'Til Death_ episode. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/36 "2007-11-08T19:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It explains why they _want_ residuals, it doesn’t explain why they’re _entitled_ to them. [/QUOTE] Check **Little Nemo** ’s post #29. I find this sufficient: > [@Little Nemo](#): > > This type of contract helps motivate good work - writers who have more skill and/or put more effort into their work are rewarded by more income. Getting residuals is like owning stock, or making tips as a food server; your fortune is tied to the creative work’s success/business’s success/customer’s satisfaction. I don’t really see a problem with this. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/37 "2007-11-08T19:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m with the OP on this. [/QUOTE] In your opinion, is anyone involved with the production of entertainment entitled to residuals? ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/38 "2007-11-08T19:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I have the solution to your problem. Since you want more Heroes episodes and writers are ‘a dime a dozen’, why don’t **YOU** write the remaining episodes? You could post them here, so we can all see how easy writing is. 😃 [/QUOTE] Glee – another great suggestion I have for people who think they can do our job is to go to [www.fanfiction.com](http://www.fanfiction.com) and read the wooooonderful pages upon pages of fanfiction self-proclaimed “brilliant writers” produce. Most of these people think of themselves as good (or great) writers. Most of them also think they could write screenplays for their favorite shows. Hell, most of them are such fanatics that they probably have a better sense of continuity and minutiae than our script supervisors do… that said, if we left plotlines to them, everyone’d be boinking, expecting twins, dropping clams (clichés) and addressing each other by their full names while making declarations of great, undying luuuuurve. Heck - go to your favorite TV show’s website and check out the message boards. Try to read a thread or two and have a look at the average viewer’s ability to keep up with basic reading and writing skills…These are also people who have offered, kindly, to supply studios with material during the strike. Woo. Because anyone can write! Most of the decent writers _here_ would end up with a bad case of thesaurus overload and stilted speech patterns. Building good stories for the small screen isn’t as easy as it looks. You can’t just pull it out of your ass. It’s not the same as novel writing, or short-story writing. Writing dialog for television is not the same as writing for the stage, either. Some people have a knack for it, but for most of us, it takes practice. Lots and lots of practice and some darn good mentors. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/39 "2007-11-08T19:54:58Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Check **Little Nemo** ’s post #29. I find this sufficient:Getting residuals is like owning stock, or making tips as a food server; your fortune is tied to the creative work’s success/business’s success/customer’s satisfaction. I don’t really see a problem with this. [/QUOTE] If the employer _wants_ to motivate the writers this way, then that’s their prerogative but that doesn’t mean the writers are _entitled_ to it, any more than they’re entitled to free sodas in the breakroom or casual fridays. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665/40 "2007-11-08T19:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] In your opinion, is anyone involved with the production of entertainment entitled to residuals? [/QUOTE] Entitled? No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-writers-strike-pisses-me-off/425665.md?page=3)