# Why this stupid new fire drill method at school? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231 "2011-09-14T01:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/41 "2011-09-14T16:57:00Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What about students who got to school late on the day of the fire?? If one shows up after 3rd period and the fire happens duing 4th period, he/she would be marked absent on the homeroom/advisary period attendance sheet. That teacher would not be expecting that student. If that student is th en trapped in a burning latrine inside the building the teacher will never know. She will say she has 100% accountability. Presumably someone else in the class knows that the student arrived late and can report that they saw that student. The idea isn’t to call out only the student names the teacher believes are there (based on homeroom attendance) but to call out _every name_ and have either the individual or someone else confirm whether that person is there/should be there/definitely isn’t there. If people aren’t sure - “yeah, I saw them!”, “no, they left!” then that person is reported as _possibly_ inside the building, just in case they really are. Unfortunately it means more work, time and risk for the firefighters, but it’s the best chance of ensuring safety. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/42 "2011-09-14T17:03:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > You don’t want a high-tech solution because, even though it’s easier and more accurate, it’s also more likely to fail. You want the most fail-safe system possible. A teacher with an attendence book is pretty low tech. I’m not sure it is even a matter of high-tech vs. low-tech (other than the absurdity of requiring schools to spend thousands of dollars on equipment that would fail in the case of power outage of being burned and destroyed). The high-tech solutions here are just worse because there is no error checking mechanism. The tech solutions offered are simply not reliable. The failure of Timmy to check in does not provide information as to whether Timmy is out sick that day or if he’s stuck in the burning building. If a teacher takes attendance with Timmy’s classmates, the classmates will most likely know if Timmy was indeed at school that day, whether he was taking a field trip with Ms. Jones’ class, or whether he’s been smokin’ weed under the bleachers for the last two hours. A technological solution may identify whether a person is missing, but the more crucial info is WHY a person is missing. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/43 "2011-09-14T17:11:16Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What about students who got to school late on the day of the fire?? If one shows up after 3rd period and the fire happens duing 4th period, he/she would be marked absent on the homeroom/advisary period attendance sheet. That teacher would not be expecting that student. If that student is th en trapped in a burning latrine inside the building the teacher will never know. She will say she has 100% accountability. At the school that had loads of fire alarms go off, this was easy; the receptionist always knew which kids had arrived late or left early. She’d go round to the form teachers informing them of these changes and checking all were there that should be; if they weren’t, she’d hunt for them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/44 "2011-09-14T17:12:11Z")
> [@Silvorange](#): > > Well, it does give them a way to account for all the students. If the kids were at lunch, or the fire alarm went off between classes, they wouldn’t already be with a teacher. That said, I’ve never heard of a high school taking attendance during a fire alarm. My school always did. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/45 "2011-09-14T17:44:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > After more thought. > > The best approach would be to include a card reader inside some emergency stations around the school’s perimeter. Right next to the emergency phone and first aid kit. > > The readers we use for our parking gates are weather resistant and use a wireless communication protocol. That one ID card does everything for students, Faculty and staff. It opens the parking gate, lets you borrow books from the library, eat at the cafeteria (if you have a meal plan prepaid). Very handy card. Everyone is expected to keep it on their person at all times when on school property. > > It would take planning to create emergency stations around a building, include a card reader & a wireless interface to a computer (hopefully not in the burning building 😃 ) > > The technology is there. Our gate card readers even know whether a student is currently enrolled. Their access to the parking lot is terminated if they aren’t enrolled. It’s all done through the wireless communications. The schools around here can’t even afford to buy pencils for the students (and this is a fairly decent middle-class area). So you think they’re going to spend the money for a high tech solution to taking attendance at fire drills when there’s a perfectly acceptable solution that works and doesn’t cost anything extra? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/46 "2011-09-14T17:50:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My school always did. Mine, too. We never had a real fire, nor a drill during the lunch periods, so I don’t know what they’d do for students on lunch - since we were allowed to leave during lunch (I regularly went for pizza or McDonald’s down the street, rather than eating in the cafeteria, unless I had plans with friends), I figure it was probably just ‘make sure the cafeteria and washrooms were empty’. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/47 "2011-09-14T19:02:44Z")
In my high school, we had an arsonist. He set several fires–I even put one out with an extinguisher. And people were still clowning. Very dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/48 "2011-09-14T19:07:49Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What about students who got to school late on the day of the fire?? If one shows up after 3rd period and the fire happens duing 4th period, he/she would be marked absent on the homeroom/advisary period attendance sheet. When I was in school in the '70s and '80s, if you arrived late, you had to report to the principal’s office first so that they could note your arrival (and presumably inform whoever needed to be informed that you were on site). ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/49 "2011-09-14T19:59:39Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > There’s nothing silly about the attendance check. It’s a central aspect of any fire drill. How else are you to know if everyone has got out of the building? The first thing the firefighters will want to know when they arrive is whether this is primarily a firefighting or a rescue operation; it’s a pretty fundamental issue. Exactly. I worked at a company that did not use any form of attendance check. We had a bomb scare and they were afraid to use the fire alarm to alert people. As a result, one person stayed in the building, oblivious to the threat. When she left the conference room some time later, everyone had long been sent home. The responders hadn’t even found her during their search. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/50 "2011-09-14T20:10:02Z")
> [@Silvorange](#): > > Well, it does give them a way to account for all the students. If the kids were at lunch, or the fire alarm went off between classes, they wouldn’t already be with a teacher. That said, I’ve never heard of a high school taking attendance during a fire alarm. I’m pretty sure its all about accounting for students. Those teachers would know (or be more likely to know) which students were actually in school that day, and therefore could help identify any students that are missing in the event of a disaster. That would help the authorities figure out who they need to be looking for, if anyone. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/51 "2011-09-14T20:35:57Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > They will still take the shortest route to safety. Once they are safe, they continue, while staying safely away from the burning building, on to the location where they are counted. This way, the school can make sure all students are accounted for more quickly. How does delaying the accounting by an additional 5 to 10 minutes make it so “students are accounted for more quickly” - that just does not compute. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/52 "2011-09-14T21:22:36Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > How does delaying the accounting by an additional 5 to 10 minutes make it so “students are accounted for more quickly” - that just does not compute. Because the teachers will immediately know which students on their list are not there. They can relay that smaller number to whoever has the list of students not there that day, and that person can determine which kids are not accounted for. The homeroom/advisory teacher can also begin searching for those missing students in particular. Compare that to the case when the fire alarm goes off during lunch or between classes, and some students report to the previous class, some to the next class, and some (most?) don’t know who to report to and find some random teacher they have that year. Now you’ve got to put all these lists together to figure out who’s not there. Also, the teachers won’t know which kids reported to some other teacher, and won’t have just a handful to look for. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/53 "2011-09-14T21:45:59Z")
It does indeed make it a lot easier if everybody knows who they need to report to. One person can get an accounting for 30 specific people far more easily than a group of people can for 2,000 people. Each teacher collects their 30 students, passes that up to their department head, who passes it to the principal, and everybody has far less to deal with, making the whole process smoother. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/54 "2011-09-14T22:42:25Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > How does delaying the accounting by an additional 5 to 10 minutes make it so “students are accounted for more quickly” - that just does not compute. Who else is going to take attendance except the homeroom teacher? A subject teacher who might not know the kids at all well? The cook, if it’s at lunchtime? ---
**Author:** ![pabstist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e99b99/32.png) [@pabstist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pabstist)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/55 "2011-09-15T00:55:58Z")
OP here. At our school, we take attendance a the beginning of every single class. So if we as a class go out to our spot together, we know who was there and who is now missing. We know who was singed out to go to the bathroom, the library, etc., and they usually end up with the closest teacher to where they exited. With the new plan, we know who is registered in our advisory period for that half an hour a day (before/after lunch, so not homeroom). But we may not have had the advisory yet, or had a it few hours ago, so anything could have happened to a student before or after. It just seems like at the time of a fire drill, the teacher should should be held accountable for every student who was in their class immediately before the fire alarm. Why should some random teacher try to figure out where Timmy is now, when they haven’t had a class with him yet that day? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/56 "2011-09-15T01:44:02Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Because the teachers will immediately know which students on their list are not there. They can relay that smaller number to whoever has the list of students not there that day, and that person can determine which kids are not accounted for. The homeroom/advisory teacher can also begin searching for those missing students in particular. > > Compare that to the case when the fire alarm goes off during lunch or between classes, and some students report to the previous class, some to the next class, and some (most?) don’t know who to report to and find some random teacher they have that year. Now you’ve got to put all these lists together to figure out who’s not there. Also, the teachers won’t know which kids reported to some other teacher, and won’t have just a handful to look for. Yes, that makes sense for lunch etc., I was thinking of during class - the teachers know exactly who made it to each class for each period that day - then they see if everyone that made it to their class made it outside - seems simple - but again I see that doesn’t work for lunch. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/57 "2011-09-15T01:47:11Z")
There have been far too many tragedies at schools in recent years, and frankly, if my kids were still in school, I’d sure want SOME KIND OF ACCOUNTING DONE. Chaos reigned supreme during the Columbine school shootings. Parents were frantic, not knowing if their kids were assembled someplace safe, already evacuated to the hospital, or dead. The unspoken relief and sheer joy when parents were reunited with their children was heart-wrenching. Think about it: you are at work, you hear there is a fire at your child’s school, and you tear over there as fast as you can. You grab any adult you find and demand, “WHERE IS MY KID?” ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/58 "2011-09-15T01:52:25Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Who else is going to take attendance except the homeroom teacher? A subject teacher who might not know the kids at all well? The cook, if it’s at lunchtime? Every teacher during every period takes attendance at the schools my kids attend. How else would it be possible to accurately account for the students during the day? If you only take attendance during the first period you would have no way of knowing they skipped the rest of the day. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/59 "2011-09-15T02:39:20Z")
> [@pabstist](#): > > OP here. At our school, we take attendance a the beginning of every single class. So if we as a class go out to our spot together, we know who was there and who is now missing. We know who was singed out to go to the bathroom, the library, etc., and they usually end up with the closest teacher to where they exited. This was kind of addressed already. The evacuation could be triggered between classes, at lunch, etc. These cases would not benefit from meeting as a classroom. Likewise, meeting as a classroom has distinct drawbacks: The kids need to know multiple meeting spots depending on which class they are in. If the evacuation occurs while a kid is in the bathroom, they need to figure out where their classroom is meeting at. It is not insurmountable, but it is more complicated than telling each kid: “During an evacuation you always go \.” It also has the drawback that to find a kid, you need to know the time the evacuation was triggered at. With the homeroom system, the kid is always supposed to be at one spot. Granted, if the homeroom hasn’t met yet, then the homeroom teacher doesn’t have the benefit of knowing attendance. But the attendance advantage can never be relied on and it can only be considered a minor benefit. The main reasons for homeroom system is: 1. Kid remembers to meet at one spot only. 2. If you need to find a kid, you know exactly where they should be. As mentioned, this is SOP for evacuation procedures. It is not always followed, but it is simple, logical, and consistent. It certainly makes the most sense for adults and young adults that should be able to get from point A to point B safely. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231/60 "2011-09-15T03:15:25Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > At least it makes more sense than the alternative to “duck and cover” we had to do back in the 50s. If a nuclear warhead were to drop on our school, we were to march single-file into the hallway, go to our lockers, open the locker doors so they’re at right angles to the wall, and stand between the locker doors until the crisis was over. I assume the kids on the end would get half their bodies nuked. > > Compared to that, your new school drill routine makes perfect sense. Hey, don’t knock the _“duck and cover”_, it worked for me. Yep, nuclear warhead, dropped right on my elementary school way back in the good ol’ cold war paranoia days. It was just a silly snafu, really…a bit too much beer on the sub…a couple inebriated double-dog dares bantered about…next thing you know, _“ka-boom!”_, complete thermonuclear destruction of my hometown, and surrounding counties. You may not have heard about it, since the date of the event was March 6, 1966. That’s right, the day William Frawley (i.e. Fred Mertz, I love Lucy) died. Frawley’s obit made front page; “H-bomb Mishap”, page three, section B. Anyway, when I heard the sirens, “good student” that I was, I _“ducked and covered”_ as I was instructed to do so many times by my diligent teachers. And, as a result, I’m here today…and fit as a fiddle (perhaps more so, since growing that third testicle, shortly after the blast radiation emission). As for those “cool kid” classmates of mine, the ones who did not pay attention when _“duck and cover”_ was demonstrated time and time again? Well, I don’t want to go into gory details, so let’s just say there were quite a few puddles of steaming piles of goo after the blast event. And for that, even today, I’m, for the most part, kind of bummed out. One classmate’s premature demise in particular still haunts me to this day—the melting of little Billy Gardner. That little pile of goo was holding a prize Mickey Mantle baseball card of mine that he never returned. Sometimes I think God just torments me for no reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-this-stupid-new-fire-drill-method-at-school/596231.md?page=4)