# Why "Valar" Hiatus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 6, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150 "2015-09-06T05:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/1 "2015-09-06T05:20:53Z")
I’m questioning the coherence of the thread title here in CS. For reasons that I won’t go into unless asked, I don’t consider _Game of Thrones_ threads suitable for me to bother with. Still, I’ve been confused about the title of that thread for quite some time. To the best of my knowledge, Valar was the word for the angelic powers/entities who played a role in the development of Middle Earth to make it suitable for habitation, and was invented by Tolkien. Did George R. R. Martin appropriate the word for his _Song of Ice and Fire_ books? It just seems weird to me that a discussion of non-Tolkien works should be employing the word. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/2 "2015-09-06T05:33:52Z")
While it is impossible to avoid ripping off Tolkien, or to avoid getting accused of such, the same work is allowed to exist in two languages. I trust that GRRM is familiar with the LOTR backstory, but it seems premature to assume a ripoff. It means “all men,” or “all men must” and is usually finished with morghulis “(must) die” or dohaeris “(must) serve.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/3 "2015-09-06T05:35:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Did George R. R. Martin appropriate the word for his _Song of Ice and Fire_ books? Yes. But just the fictional word, not its definition. In Martin’s world the phrase ‘valar morghulis’ is frequently mentioned, which in book terms just translates into ‘all men must die.’ The almost as frequently mentioned common response phrase is ‘valar dohaeris’ - ‘all men must serve.’ It has nothing to do with Tolkienesque Valar, but rather derives from a culture and language called Valyrian, which itself presumably translates into some approximation of ‘the people.’ **Valar Hiatus** is just a jokey and perfectly appropriate title to discuss behind the scenes goings on like new casting between seasons of the TV show. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/4 "2015-09-06T06:29:19Z")
Ah. Thanks very much. I shall sleep soundly in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/5 "2015-09-06T06:56:01Z")
I’ve always translated the thread title as “All Men Must Wait”… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/6 "2015-09-06T17:06:34Z")
And “morghulis” itself seems to be a borrowing from Tolkien: Compare the Morghul Vale, valley of death. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/7 "2015-09-06T17:14:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > While it is impossible to avoid ripping off Tolkien, or to avoid getting accused of such, the same work is allowed to exist in two languages. I trust that GRRM is familiar with the LOTR backstory, but it seems premature to assume a ripoff. It means “all men,” or “all men must” and is usually finished with morghulis “(must) die” or dohaeris “(must) serve.” I wonder if the sufix “is” is the part that means “must”. Valar = All men Morghul = die, death Dohaer = serve, service Is = Must ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/8 "2015-09-06T17:17:22Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wonder if the sufix “is” is the part that means “must”. > > Valar = All men > Morghul = die, death > Dohaer = serve, service > Is = Must A sort of imperative marker? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/9 "2015-09-07T05:03:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And “morghulis” itself seems to be a borrowing from Tolkien: Compare the Morghul Vale, valley of death. No. Morgul means “black sorcery.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/10 "2015-09-07T05:21:20Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > No. Morgul means “black sorcery.” This. “Mor” is black, dark. As in Mordor (Black Land), Moria (Black Pit), Morwen (Dark Woman), Morgoth (Dark Enemy). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/11 "2015-09-07T14:41:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > A sort of imperative marker? Yes, “All men must wait” is an order, so you must use the …? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/12 "2015-09-07T15:03:15Z")
Shouldn’t it be “valar hiatusis!”? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/13 "2015-09-07T15:44:31Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Shouldn’t it be “valar hiatusis!”? Obviously, it’s Vulgar Valyrian rather than Classic. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/14 "2015-09-07T15:46:52Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Shouldn’t it be “valar hiatusis!”? Is hiatusis the third person plural present indicative, “they wait”? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/15 "2015-09-07T17:01:19Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Is hiatusis the third person plural present indicative, “they wait”? It’s coming from the idea that the “-is” suffix in morghulis and dohaeris is an indicator of an imperative mood. It’s a little silly to try to apply it to the thread title in question since the thread title was never intended to be an actual snippet of Valyrian or whatever language the Free Cities speak. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/16 "2015-09-07T18:55:54Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Shouldn’t it be “valar hiatusis!”? That sounds like a disease. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/17 "2015-09-07T18:59:34Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wonder if the sufix “is” is the part that means “must”. > > Valar = All men > Morghul = die, death > Dohaer = serve, service > Is = Must Maybe morghul means death, morghulis means actually the active form? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/18 "2015-09-07T18:59:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That sounds like a disease. Uh oh, uhm, I, uh, should probably, uhm, go see the doctor. BRB. Love ya. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/19 "2015-09-07T19:53:08Z")
Of course, it’s entirely possible that “valar” means “must”, and the “men” is understood. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150/20 "2015-09-07T22:21:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s coming from the idea that the “-is” suffix in morghulis and dohaeris is an indicator of an imperative mood. It’s a little silly to try to apply it to the thread title in question since the thread title was never intended to be an actual snippet of Valyrian or whatever language the Free Cities speak. You know it was a joke question, right? Valyrian grammar Nazis are the worst. Also Valyrian as the language of Valar makes more sense. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-valar-hiatus/730150.md?page=2)