# Why was a Centurion in charge of just 80 men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686 "2003-07-29T16:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/21 "2012-12-24T11:15:50Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Fascinating. > > ETA: “and 75-100 makes a natural break in the number one man can keep track of and effectively direct.” Debateable. Presumably he means without using any technology to help communication ---
**Author:** ![Jimmothy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/da6949/32.png) [@Jimmothy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmothy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/22 "2017-12-07T16:47:57Z")
Actually it was 100. > **[Centurion | Roman military officer](https://www.britannica.com/topic/centurion-Roman-military-officer)** > > centurion, the principal professional officer in the armies of ancient Rome and its empire. The centurion was the commander of a centuria, which was the smallest unit of a Roman legion. A legion was nominally composed of 6,000 soldiers, and each... ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/23 "2017-12-07T17:43:56Z")
> [@Jimmothy](#): > > Actually it was 100. > [Centurion | Imperial Army, Legionary & Tribune | Britannica](https://www.britannica.com/topic/centurion-Roman-military-officer) That very poorly written article, lacking depth, doesn’t say at what point in time in the history of Rome it is referring to. As has been noted before, the number of people in each level was reduced, probably due to reduction in the _decuria_. Welcome to the Straight Dope, by the way, and thank-you for your contribution. Others with more knowledge will be along shortly to take up the discussion, I’m sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/24 "2017-12-07T18:08:38Z")
Even that article says “_about_ 100 men.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/25 "2017-12-07T18:47:00Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > It got decimated ,lol > > Declan Twice! ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/26 "2017-12-07T18:48:38Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > …are you going to be a stickler for accuracy and say you command eighty, or are you going to start telling folks you command “about a hundred”? You could call yourself an “Eightyper Centurion”? (Seriously- this thread is much more interesting than I’d expected,) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/27 "2017-12-07T21:55:25Z")
Cause no one wanted to be called an octogintarion. The company size point is a good one - and is close enough to the lower bound to [Dunbar’s number](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number) to make me think there’s some sort of connection there. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/28 "2017-12-08T02:35:19Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > … > It’s the same reason Irish math is Base 7… > > Damn farmers 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/29 "2017-12-08T02:37:23Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > At a fundamental level, it’s around the limit one man can command using only voice. (Yes, a general can shout, “Forward!” and have thousands of troops move out, but he can only command that many through intermediaries, and 75-100 makes a natural break in the number one man can keep track of and effectively direct.) > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > That’s why even today, infantry companies are about 100 men strong. **Alessan** , are you replying directly here to **AB**? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/30 "2017-12-08T04:10:01Z")
[off-topic] I found it very easy to memorize the names of officer ranks in Thai. The same names are used for Army, Air Force, Navy, Police and Immigration ranks and can be roughly translated as: 4-star General - Mr. Power, 1st 3-star General - Mr. Power, 2nd 2-star General - Mr. Power, 3rd 1-star General - Mr. Power, 4th Colonel - Mr. Thousand, 1st Lt. Colonel - Mr. Thousand, 2nd Major - Mr. Thousand, 3rd Captain - Mr. Hundred, 1st Lieutenant - Mr. Hundred, 2nd 2nd Lieut. - Mr. Hundred, 3rd Sergeant - Mr. Ten, though I’ve never tried to memorize the detailed gradations among NCO ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/31 "2017-12-08T19:18:45Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > It got decimated ,lol > > Declan > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Twice! That would be 81. (Sorry, this is SDMB. If not me, somebody else…) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/32 "2017-12-08T23:41:39Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > **Alessan** , are you replying directly here to **AB**? I dunno. It was five years ago, so your guess is as good as mine. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/33 "2017-12-09T03:42:27Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Fascinating. > > ETA: “and 75-100 makes a natural break in the number one man can keep track of and effectively direct.” Debateable. I’m afraid I don’t have a cite handy, but I know I’ve read that humans typically max out somewhere around 100 with the number of people they can have a working knowledge of–maybe the captain doesn’t know everything about Private Jones, but he knows Jones is hotheaded, a deadly shot, and a very slow runner; and that this is indeed why we find humans organizing into groups of around 100, eg the infantry company. Bigger than 100 and it starts to be “who is that again?” However without a cite I can’t say whether this is credible or sort of folk sociology. ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/34 "2017-12-09T20:35:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That would be 81. > > (Sorry, this is SDMB. If not me, somebody else…) Dagnabbit! ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686/35 "2017-12-10T12:18:55Z")
Another question might be why centuries in Roman civilian life - for voting purposes - could often contain several thousand people. Answer: They started off with about 100 in the early Republic and ‘just growed’. Centuries in the military ‘just shrank’. But in general, nominal numbers rarely reflect realities in military units, for many practical reasons. It’s not a good idea to get too hung up on neat and tidy numbers and organisation in the Roman army. It always varied - just like Roman armour, shields, weapons, and tactics. If you look at actual Roman depictions of soldiers, most of them don’t look much like modern re-enactors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-a-centurion-in-charge-of-just-80-men/191686.md?page=1)