# Why was Ethel Merman a star? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762 "2006-03-02T15:50:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/21 "2006-03-04T20:47:12Z")
Ethel Merman and Ernest Borgnine. Now there’s a wedding picture you don’t want on your mantle. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/22 "2006-03-05T04:49:34Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > Not love Ethel Merman? > > Unpossible! > > How can you not adore the belting? > > How can you not just glow from the range? > > How can you not smile at her brassiness? > How how how? I’m not homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/23 "2006-03-05T07:05:45Z")
Reason #58 why people may mistakenly assume I’m gay- Fondness for Ethel Merman. Remember when she was on the Muppets? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/24 "2006-03-05T12:47:58Z")
There are various sources that say Ethel Merman once had a fling with Jacqueline Susann. I have no idea whether they’re credible or not, but I find the thought. . . intriguing. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/25 "2006-03-05T13:57:57Z")
Susann’s biographer takes it as credible, describing more than one instance of their physical relationship. And of course Merman was the basis for Helen Lawson in _Valley of the Dolls_. Harvey Fierstein tells a couple stories on Merman on his concert CD. One from when he met her while doing _Torch Song Trilogy_ on Broadway. He asked her opinion on the show and she said, “I thought it was a piece of shit but the rest of the audience laughed and cried so what the fuck do I know?” ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/26 "2006-03-05T14:06:41Z")
My sister and mother are huge broadway fans. I once bought them a coffee table book of broadway shows that had one of Ethel Merman’s first publicity shots. It’s hard for us young 'uns who primarily knew her as an aging, overweight belter to believe, but as a young woman, she was a knockout. Stunningly beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/27 "2006-03-05T14:09:53Z")
[This](http://www.nndb.com/people/110/000023041/ethel-merman-sized.jpg) is adifferent picture than the one I recall, not as good, but you get the idea ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/28 "2006-03-05T14:21:58Z")
Googling up Meman pics [I ran across this](http://www.born-today.com/Today/01-16.htm) (The picture is worth a look just by itself) > [@](#): > > “I remember Tallulah telling of going into a public ladies’ room and discovering there was no toilet tissue. She looked underneath the booth and said to the lady in the next stall, ‘I beg your pardon, do you happen to have any toilet tissue in there?’ The lady said no. So Tallulah said, 'Well, then, dahling, do you have two fives for a ten?” [Here’s a really early pic](http://www.goldenageautographs.com/vintage/ethelmerman.html) ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/29 "2006-03-05T21:01:23Z")
A former co-worker once turned me on to a great game. Basically it’s an Ethel Merman imitating competition. But here’s the catch – the winner is whoever can imitate Ethel singing the most mis-matched, incongorous song. Here are some ideas to get you started: “Feelings” “At Seventeen” “Behind Blue Eyes” “I Like Big Butts” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/30 "2006-03-05T21:18:39Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > There’s an amazing segment of her, Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand on _The Judy Garland Show_. The three of them, Broadway’s old guard (Ethel), former Hollywood Royalty (Judy) and Broadway’s New Star (Barbra) are singing together on “There’s No Business Like Show Business.” Ethel takes the number, puts it right in her handbag and walks off with it. She brooks no challenge from Judy (who recognizes that despite her own divahood she is, on this number, no match for La Merman) or from Barbra (who makes a truly pathetic attempt to hold her own and never quite understands that **This Number Belongs To Ethel** ). I can’t say that I am some huge fan of Ethel Merman but that number by itself is sufficient to cement her place in the pantheon. The only version I’ve seen to stand up to Ethel’s is Betty Hutton’s–another of the great belters–in the movie version of _Annie Get Your Gun_. Betty was not a subtle actress; she was very much in the mold of Ethel. Only blond and beautiful, and with a velvet smoothness to her voice when she wanted it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/31 "2006-03-05T21:31:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > The only version I’ve seen to stand up to Ethel’s is Betty Hutton’s–another of the great belters–in the movie version of _Annie Get Your Gun_. Betty was not a subtle actress; she was very much in the mold of Ethel. Only blond and beautiful, and with a velvet smoothness to her voice when she wanted it. Betty Hutton-didn’t her sister Marian sing with the Glenn Miller orchestra? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/32 "2006-03-05T21:32:22Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > The only version I’ve seen to stand up to Ethel’s is Betty Hutton’s–another of the great belters–in the movie version of _Annie Get Your Gun_. Betty was not a subtle actress; she was very much in the mold of Ethel. Only blond and beautiful, and with a velvet smoothness to her voice when she wanted it. And Betty was a second choice…they started filming the movie with Judy Garland herself, but she fell ill (I can’t find anything to confirm whether that’s the straight dope or a euphemism for “went on a binge”) and they chose Hutton to replace her. I’ve heard some of the Garland versions of the songs from _AGYG_…they’re not bad at all. Judy could belt, too. I mean, she wasn’t the Merm or anything, but still… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/33 "2006-03-05T21:36:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Betty Hutton-didn’t her sister Marian sing with the Glenn Miller orchestra? Yes. She also did a few films (at least two as more than “band singer”) though her film career didn’t come close to rivalling her sister’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/34 "2006-03-05T21:48:14Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#): > > Anyone else think she was kinda hot in [It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World](http://imdb.com/title/tt0057193/)? Man, those were _some_ underpants, weren’t they? [sub]I think I preferred Edie Adams[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/35 "2006-03-05T22:07:25Z")
> [@NicePete](#): > > “I Like Big Butts” Unless somebody else has recorded a song in tribute to the classic by Sir Mixalot\*, you mean “Baby Got Back.” \*He likes big butts and he cannot lie. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/36 "2006-03-05T23:10:36Z")
Just checking in to vote yes. A great, great star. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/37 "2006-03-06T00:18:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And Betty was a second choice…they started filming the movie with Judy Garland herself, but she fell ill (I can’t find anything to confirm whether that’s the straight dope or a euphemism for “went on a binge”) and they chose Hutton to replace her. I’ve heard some of the Garland versions of the songs from _AGYG_…they’re not bad at all. Judy could belt, too. I mean, she wasn’t the Merm or anything, but still… Judy kind of fell apart, couldn’t handle the stress of the huge production on top of her chemical and emotional issues. She kind of flaked out and they had to leave her behind. I’ve seen some of the production numbers she filmed. I’d still choose Betty over her for the part. Although I think overall it’s a horrible movie, so maybe that’s something of a backhanded compliment. Judy wasn’t all there. In “I’m an Indian Too”–as jawdroppingly racist a musical number as any blackface bit you’ll ever see–Judy didn’t get that in the line “I’m an Indian too/A Sioux–oo-oo” the “oo–oo” was supposed to be stereotypical Indian hooting; she sang it as a simple vocal fluorish; a continuation of the single syllable of “Sioux.” Betty played it up right, patting her hand over her round-open mouth with each “oo” as the Berlin obviously intended. Not sure what that proves; only Judy usually got the most out of a song, and in the numbers I’ve seen from _Annie GYG_, she was kinda phonin it in. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/38 "2006-03-06T02:03:48Z")
And just to continue the Judy hijack for a moment, Judy was cast originally as Helen Lawson in the film version of VOTD, based as noted on Merman. She had to drop out, unfortunately, after delivering the line "Broadway doesn’t go for booze and dope"and having her head explode. ---
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/39 "2006-03-06T03:47:51Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Remember when she was on the Muppets? I do. I also remember when she “performed” on Dance Fever. Denny Terrio graciously held her up as she was stumbling all over the stage after performing her disco version of “Alexander’s Ragtime Band”, from [The Ethel Merman Disco Album](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000084TTG/ref=m_art_li_3/002-9764084-3424065?s=music&v=glance&n=5174) . I have some very odd early memories of “La Merman” thanks to TV, mostly game shows. I think she scared the bejeesus out of everyone on the Match Game Panel. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762/40 "2006-03-06T05:18:23Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > Ethel Merman and Ernest Borgnine. Now there’s a wedding picture you don’t want on your mantle. If I remember correctly from an old Johnny Carson show, Merman was on promoting her autobiography and the chapter on Borgnine was simply a blank page. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-ethel-merman-a-star/346762.md?page=3)