# Why was Hannibal Lecter in a Mental Hospital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 27, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284 "2006-07-27T16:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mouse\_Maven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@Mouse\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mouse_Maven)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/1 "2006-07-27T16:45:53Z")
Its been many years since I have read Silence of the Lambs or seen the film. I was just wondering how a cold-blooded killer like Hannibal the Cannibal could be in mental hospital? Similar, real life serial killers did not get this sort of treatment. Jeffrey Dahmer was put in prison and [Albert Fish](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/fish/index.html) was executed. Did Dr. Lecter’s training as a psychologist make him more dangerous in a prison setting? Prisons have [isolation wards](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5582144) , so I don’t think security was an issue. What say you, great and erudite Dopers? ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/2 "2006-07-27T17:06:57Z")
I always thought the idea was to study him in order to understand and presumably prevent other folks from getting that crazy and murdering people. Or at the very least, make it easier to catch them. Not that it was working. But that was the idea. ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/3 "2006-07-27T18:04:41Z")
In the first movie take of “Red Dragon”, “Manhunter” with William Peterson, there’s a great exchange between Peterson and Lecter that kind of explains it. It goes something like: Lecter: But you caught me. Peterson: You had…disabilities (or something like that) Lecter: What ? Peterson: You are insane. So I think Lecter falls into the “not guilty by reason of insanity” pool. Hence, a mental hospital instead of prison. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/4 "2006-07-27T18:16:46Z")
I would expect him to be put into Vacaville or someplace similar–one of the prisons for the criminally insane. Combination mental institution and prison. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/5 "2006-07-27T18:32:33Z")
In Silence of the Lambs, the narrator makes a point of saying that, when his desires first began to preoccupy him, Lecter prepared for a time in which he might be a fugitive (putting cash aside, creating a false identity ready for him to step into, etc). It doesn’t seem unlikely or unbelievable to me that he also laid a false trail of behavior that would convince a jury and judge that he was legally insane. Remember, he testified at any number of criminal cases where the defendants’ sanity was in question (Crawford speculates in Lambs that he may have set Buffalo Bill among others free, just for fun), so he’d know how to game the system, reasoning that he’d have an eaiser time escaping from an asylum than a maximum-security prison. Also bear in mind that in the Lecterverse, getting free on M’Naughten may have been easier in the 70s than it was in reality, or is now. Crawford muses in Hannibal that the rules have changed since Lecter’s commitment, and that if the doctor is caught again he is certain to be executed. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/6 "2006-07-27T18:40:47Z")
In addition to all that, I’d guess Lecter was treated special because he was a well-known and respected psychiatrist (before he started eating people). But he was too dangerous for the minimum security type places where rich and famous criminals usually end up. Presumably, an institution for the “criminally insane” would be better able to handle him than a normal prison. Bwaahahahahahahahah. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/7 "2006-07-27T18:48:04Z")
Also been a while since I saw the movie (never read the book) but the facility in SOTL was supposed to be a mental hospital? Wasn’t Lecter locked in an isolation cell with rough stone walls and a plexiglass shield/door with the only access being through a sliding tray? Doesn’t scream “mental hospital” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/8 "2006-07-27T18:52:08Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] In addition to all that, I’d guess Lecter was treated special because he was a well-known and respected psychiatrist (before he started eating people). But he was too dangerous for the minimum security type places where rich and famous criminals usually end up. Presumably, an institution for the “criminally insane” would be better able to handle him than a normal prison. Bwaahahahahahahahah. [/QUOTE] Well, Lecter WAS handled fairly well (excepting the situation with the nurse and her eaten tongue) until he was transferred OUT of the facility. (Admittedly, the BEST way to handle Lecter would have been to drop him into a live volcano, but still..) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/9 "2006-07-27T19:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Also been a while since I saw the movie (never read the book) but the facility in SOTL was supposed to be a mental hospital? Wasn’t Lecter locked in an isolation cell with rough stone walls and a plexiglass shield/door with the only access being through a sliding tray? Doesn’t scream “mental hospital” to me. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I had problems with the dungeon cell. Watch _Manhunter,_ where they have Sherlock Holmes as Lecter, in a more regulation white boobyhatch cell. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/10 "2006-07-27T19:42:03Z")
The question of Lecter’s sanity is an interesting one. Under the law, I don’t see him as insane. However, popular books like to treat sociopathy as if it meets legal criteria for insanity. It doesn’t, but the “rebel without a cause”/antihero persona is popular in the US. \*One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest, The Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho, Natural Born Killers… \* I could go on. To the best of my understanding, none of the sociopathic characters in these narratives meet legal criteria for insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/11 "2006-07-27T19:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] The question of Lecter’s sanity is an interesting one. Under the law, I don’t see him as insane. However, popular books like to treat sociopathy as if it meets legal criteria for insanity. It doesn’t, but the “rebel without a cause”/antihero persona is popular in the US. \*One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest, The Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho, Natural Born Killers… \* I could go on. To the best of my understanding, none of the sociopathic characters in these narratives meet legal criteria for insanity. [/QUOTE] Well, as I said above, I don’t think Lecter was insane under even the rules for his universe–but I’m SURE he could counterfeit being insane well enough to convince a jury. They’re going to think him disconnected from reality because of the simple nature of his crimes, and he could surely game the system. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/12 "2006-07-27T19:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Also been a while since I saw the movie (never read the book) but the facility in SOTL was supposed to be a mental hospital? Wasn’t Lecter locked in an isolation cell with rough stone walls and a plexiglass shield/door with the only access being through a sliding tray? Doesn’t scream “mental hospital” to me. [/QUOTE] The “warden” of Lecter’s facility was Dr. Chilton, a psychiatrist. I believe they acknowledge in the movie that they’d given up all hope of attempting to “cure” or even treat Lecter; I imagine IRL they would initiate proceedings to have Lecter transferred to a conventional “supermax” prison. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/13 "2006-07-27T19:54:30Z")
Since we’re bringing up lingering questions from SOTL, how did Lecter get that pen that Dr. What’s His Face left on the table? You remember the scene. Lecter is completely shackled, face-mask and all, and the good doctor leaves his pen on the table. Later –I may be going out of sequence here- the doctor reaches in his breast pocket for his pen which is no longer there and then, Lecter evidently used the push button or some other device –presumably from the doctor’s pen- to free himself from his handcuffs when the other guards are bringing him his dinner. So, having said all that, how the hell did Lecter get the pen? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/14 "2006-07-27T19:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=minlokwat] So, having said all that, how the hell did Lecter get the pen? [/QUOTE] Did he have the whole pen, or just the guts of it, the ink tube? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/15 "2006-07-27T20:04:04Z")
[QUOTE=minlokwat] Since we’re bringing up lingering questions from SOTL, how did Lecter get that pen that Dr. What’s His Face left on the table? You remember the scene. Lecter is completely shackled, face-mask and all, and the good doctor leaves his pen on the table. Later –I may be going out of sequence here- the doctor reaches in his breast pocket for his pen which is no longer there and then, Lecter evidently used the push button or some other device –presumably from the doctor’s pen- to free himself from his handcuffs when the other guards are bringing him his dinner. So, having said all that, how the hell did Lecter get the pen? [/QUOTE] In the book, he steals the pen long before the story opens; but as he used it to make a handcuff key, it was not useful in the asylum. He merely held onto it in the event he was ever in the custody of someone less wise than Barney (who knew much better than to try to restrain Lecter with just handcuffs). In the movie…well, lemme think. [Comic Book Geek] Mutant telekinesis. See, his powers aren’t very precise or very powerful; he can’t manipulate anything that he couldn’t manipulate with his thumbnail, or supply more than two or three pounts of force, or move things more than fourfeet away. So he couldn’t use his TK to unlock the shackles directly, or to smack Chilton around, or to unbutton Starling’s blouse; but he could use it to pick up a pen and secrete it on his person. [/CBG] What? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/16 "2006-07-27T21:39:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] The question of Lecter’s sanity is an interesting one. Under the law, I don’t see him as insane. [/quote] IIRC the legal test of insanity (M’Naughten (sp?) test) is whether the person was capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. > [@Shoshona](#): > > However, popular books like to treat sociopathy as if it meets legal criteria for insanity. It doesn’t, but the “rebel without a cause”/antihero persona is popular in the US. \*One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest, The Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho, Natural Born Killers… \* I could go on. Man, one of these things is not like the other. I can’t put McMurphy in the same galaxy of crazy as Lechter, Bateman or the Knoxes. He was anti-social but AFAIK he wasn’t chopping people up and scattering them across the landscape. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/17 "2006-07-27T22:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > In the book, he steals the pen long before the story opens; but as he used it to make a handcuff key, it was not useful in the asylum. He merely held onto it in the event he was ever in the custody of someone less wise than Barney (who knew much better than to try to restrain Lecter with just handcuffs). I haven’t read the book since the 1980’s, but I seem to recall that there was no pen; Lecter had a single staple inadvertently left in a magazine. He kept it between his cheek and gum, waiting for his chance. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/18 "2006-07-27T22:29:46Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] I haven’t read the book since the 1980’s, but I seem to recall that there was no pen; Lecter had a single staple inadvertently left in a magazine. He kept it between his cheek and gum, waiting for his chance. [/QUOTE] It’s mentioned that staples (in fact, anything hard) is kept from Lecter, but his improvised handcuff key was made from part of a metal pen’s tube and a small section of a paper clip that had carelessly been left with him over the years. ---
**Author:** ![harrylentil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@harrylentil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harrylentil)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/19 "2006-07-27T22:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] \*One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest, The Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho, Natural Born Killers… \* I could go on. To the best of my understanding, none of the sociopathic characters in these narratives meet legal criteria for insanity. [/QUOTE] The sociopathic character in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest was Nurse Ratchett. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/20 "2006-07-27T22:31:49Z")
Well, more accurately, it was the pen’s metal ink tube. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284.md?page=2)