# Why was Hannibal Lecter in a Mental Hospital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 27, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284 "2006-07-27T16:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/21 "2006-07-28T14:32:13Z")
[QUOTE=harrylentil] The sociopathic character in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest was Nurse Ratchett. [/QUOTE] Yeah, McMurphy was only in the nuthouse because he thought it’d be an easier stay than prison time. Sit around in pajamas, watch TV, play a lot of checkers, plus, free drugs. Turns out he was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/22 "2006-07-28T14:42:12Z")
I dunno . . . how does the Joker manage to get sent to Arkham Asylum every time he’s caught? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/23 "2006-07-28T16:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] It’s mentioned that staples (in fact, anything hard) is kept from Lecter, but his improvised handcuff key was made from part of a metal pen’s tube and a small section of a paper clip that had carelessly been left with him over the years. [/QUOTE] IIRC, Lecter’s lawyer left the pen in his cell by mistake. It was Barney’s day off, and the guy covering for him was careless and didn’t notice. The paperclip was from a second incident where someone forgot to take it off the pages he was giving to Lecter. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/24 "2006-07-28T16:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=minlokwat] Since we’re bringing up lingering questions from SOTL, how did Lecter get that pen that Dr. What’s His Face left on the table? You remember the scene. Lecter is completely shackled, face-mask and all, and the good doctor leaves his pen on the table. Later –I may be going out of sequence here- the doctor reaches in his breast pocket for his pen which is no longer there and then, Lecter evidently used the push button or some other device –presumably from the doctor’s pen- to free himself from his handcuffs when the other guards are bringing him his dinner. So, having said all that, how the hell did Lecter get the pen? [/QUOTE] Presumably, Chilton just forgot it. After leaving the pen on the cot, Chilton directs Barney to leave the cell, so he can berate Hannibal for his stupidity in not seeing through Clarice’s fake deal with Senator Martin. Hannibal gives Chilton a fake name for Buffalo Bill, says he’ll tell the rest to the Senator, and that’s the end of the scene. I’m not sure I buy it, unless we’re to assume Chilton was so excited about getting a name for Buffalo Bill that he wants to get Hannibal to Tennessee as quickly as possible. Even then, though, Barney would have come back into the cell to release Hannibal from the cart. Seems implausible that after working with Hannibal for so long he would miss such an obvious breach of security. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/25 "2006-07-28T17:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] IIRC, Lecter’s lawyer left the pen in his cell by mistake. It was Barney’s day off, and the guy covering for him was careless and didn’t notice. The paperclip was from a second incident where someone forgot to take it off the pages he was giving to Lecter. [/QUOTE] i’m pretty sure it was a visiting psychology graduate student who left the pen in the cell. I DON’T think you can be Hannibal Lecter’s lawyer and be careless. Ethics may impel you to represent him, but you’re not going to want to help him get out, either. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/26 "2006-07-28T17:17:02Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Also been a while since I saw the movie (never read the book) [/QUOTE] As is usual, the book is much better than the movie. When I first read _Red Dragon_ I slept with a firearm under my bed for a week. _Under_ my bed, mind you, so that I could grab it as I rolled out of bed and fled the house. 🙂 Halfhyde entering the house and killing the family is scary. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/27 "2006-07-28T17:19:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I dunno . . . how does the Joker manage to get sent to Arkham Asylum every time he’s caught? [/QUOTE] Look, Batman is just make-believe. Hannibal Lecter is real life. In the movie, it’s implied that Chilton forgets it in Lecter’s cell after he’s done gloating. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/28 "2006-07-28T17:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] i’m pretty sure it was a visiting psychology graduate student who left the pen in the cell. I DON’T think you can be Hannibal Lecter’s lawyer and be careless. Ethics may impel you to represent him, but you’re not going to want to help him get out, either. [/QUOTE] From the book: > [@The Silence of The Lambs](#): > > In all the years after he savaged the nurse in the Baltimore asylum, there had been only two lapses in the security around him, both on Barney’s days off. Once a psychiatric researcher loaned him a ballpoint pen and then forgot it. Before the man was out of the ward, Dr. Lecter had broken up the plastic barrel of the pen and flushed it down his toilet. The metal ink tube went in the rolled seam edging his mattress. > > … > > Six months later, an orderly left a heavy-duty paper clip on some documents sent to Dr. Lecter by his attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/29 "2006-07-28T18:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] From the book: [/QUOTE] Pyschiatric researcher or psych grad student? To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/30 "2006-07-28T18:09:30Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] He was anti-social but AFAIK. . . [/QUOTE] Hey, she told him she was 18, and besides, Doc. . .what would you do with that pretty beaver staring you right in the face? (uh, the “royal you”) ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/31 "2006-07-28T19:21:50Z")
Back on the OP: I’ve seen the movie and read the books a handful of times. My recollection is that mention is made of Lecter is so intelligent that he essentially plays with the psych tests, answering them in a variety of ways (all internally consistent) but basically breaking the system. If none of your tests to determine sanity work, then what are you left with? The larger point here was that the usual rules couldn’t possibly apply to him. I also get the sense that the “Know Right from Wrong” litmus test would fail on Lecter anyway, since his psychopathic megalomania supported by a frightening intelligence render that question moot. While he understands what _society_ considers Right and Wrong, he believes himself completely above and beyond such petty considerations and restrictions, which pretty much is the same as not knowing right from wrong. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/32 "2006-07-28T19:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] Watch _Manhunter,_ where they have Sherlock Holmes as Lecter, [/QUOTE] [Brian Cox](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004051/) is certainly prolific, which probably explains why I can’t find his Sherlock Holmes role. I thought his LEcter was excellent, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![tlacour123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@tlacour123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tlacour123)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/33 "2006-07-28T22:51:00Z")
I happen to be listening to the audiobook for the 2nd or third time right now and just got past the escape scene so here goes: He steals a pen from a psych. intern at the hospital on one occasion and some of his court papers are given to him by an orderly with a heavy duty paperclip on another occasion. Both things happen at the hospital and on days that Barney is off duty. He takes the metal ink tube out of the pen, cuts it to a few inches long and uses the paperclip bent and poking through. Combined to make a handcuff key. He hides these in his room and on his person for several years waiting for a chance to use them. As to his status in a “hospital.” I worked for a while in a Forensic psychiatric hospital. These are hospitals for people who are found guilty of a crime, found to be mentally ill, and pose a serious threat to there own or others safety. While we didn’t have anyone as cool as Dr. Lecter, there were some that were quite disturbing. They were evaluated periodicially to determine their mental health. For most, if they were ever found to be “sane”, then they would be transfered to a standard correctional facility to serve out their time. I was only a grunt, but I don’t think their sentance started until they were transfered to a prison. I could be wrong on this point, though. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/34 "2006-07-29T06:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The sociopathic character in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest was Nurse Ratchett. \*One of \*the sociopathic characters in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest was Nurse Ratchett. In the book, McMurphy is not just a bit con artist wanting to scam the system. And someone was killed on account of his actions, albeit not as directly as Lecter’s kills–Billy. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/35 "2006-07-29T06:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] (Admittedly, the BEST way to handle Lecter would have been to drop him into a live volcano, but still..) [/QUOTE] \*\*Frodo: \*\*I do not choose now to do what I came to do. Hannibal is mine! **Hannibal:** Bwa ha haaa! (_eats Frodo_) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284/36 "2006-07-31T16:31:54Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] \*One of \*the sociopathic characters in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest was Nurse Ratchett. In the book, McMurphy is not just a bit con artist wanting to scam the system. And someone was killed on account of his actions, albeit not as directly as Lecter’s kills–Billy. [/QUOTE] I haven’t read Cuckoo’s Nest in a long time, but I thought it was pretty clearly implied, if not directly stated that McMurphy was quite sane, and just acting insane because he thought the mental hospital would be much easier time than the state penitentiary. There’s the whole scene where he finds out that now that he’s been committed, they can keep him past the end of his normal sentence, which he clearly finds very disturbing. And you can’t really put Billy’s death on McMurphy. Sure, he got him laid, but it was clearly Ratched’s threat to tell his mother about it that drove him to suicide. Getting laid was the best thing that could have happened to Billy - if nothing else it cured his stutter! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-hannibal-lecter-in-a-mental-hospital/366284.md?page=1)