# Why was it unexpected that Darth Vader would tell Luke he is his Father? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 1, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016 "2020-08-01T20:16:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/101 "2020-08-06T14:24:42Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > > Not only that, but all the important people, the most important people in the entire galaxy, are closely related. > > That is just a Bene Gesserit thing. Well, we _did_ see a sandworm skeleton… > [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > Perhaps it was the lack of deception which surprised Yoda. One of the most interesting parts of the Vader - Luke relationship is that Vader never, ever lies to Luke… Huh - I never thought of it that way. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/102 "2020-08-06T15:22:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, we _did_ see a sandworm skeleton… Do worms have bones? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/103 "2020-08-06T15:25:39Z")
Haven’t dissected any on Arrakis, er, Tatooine lately, so I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/104 "2020-08-06T15:43:15Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I believe I had read that he conceived Star Wars as a nine part series originally. Obviously he hadn’t worked out all the details yet… I went back and read, and it was actually (surprised me) twelve(!) parts. This was the year before Empire was released. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/105 "2020-08-06T15:58:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Do worms have bones? They may be called ‘worms’, but it seems doubtful anything of that size could exist without an internal skeleton of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/106 "2020-08-06T18:15:41Z")
They are more or less cylindrical, with apparently minimal internal structure, and protection against the sand, so it seems like a sort of exoskeletal structure could make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/107 "2020-08-06T20:17:26Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I went back and read, and it was actually (surprised me) twelve(!) parts. This was the year before Empire was released. Über cool! ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/108 "2020-08-06T21:05:44Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > One of the most interesting parts of the Vader - Luke relationship is that Vader never, ever lies to Luke. Never? “That name no longer has any meaning for me.” “It is… too late for me, son.” “Give yourself to the dark side. It is the only way you can save your friends.” Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/109 "2020-08-06T22:09:26Z")
He can be wrong without lying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/110 "2020-08-07T13:43:35Z")
Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/111 "2020-08-07T18:51:33Z")
True, but can we be certain he wasn’t lying? It’s easy to say “Vader never lied” if you just dismiss any falsehoods as errors. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/112 "2020-08-07T19:37:38Z")
Appropriate [Full Frontal Nerdity](http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=2134). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/113 "2020-08-07T20:26:50Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > True, but can we be certain he wasn’t lying? It’s easy to say “Vader never lied” if you just dismiss any falsehoods as errors. > > Powers &8^] Perhaps. But I feel like all three of those are tied up in a feeling that Vader thinks he’s irredeemable. I mean he was gonna let the emperor kill Luke there for a few seconds. He probably surprised himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/114 "2020-08-07T23:36:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Perhaps. But I feel like all three of those are tied up in a feeling that Vader thinks he’s irredeemable. I mean he was gonna let the emperor kill Luke there for a few seconds. He probably surprised himself. He himself took a few attempted-fatal blows at Luke. I think if Luke had not defended and jumped back, Darth Vader was going to cut him in half… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/115 "2020-08-25T19:14:27Z")
_Star Wars_ meets Canadian First Nations - an interesting artistic vision: [Contemporary International Indigenous Art at the National Gallery - Galleries West](https://www.gallerieswest.ca/news/contemporary-international-indigenous-art-at-the-national-ga/) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/116 "2020-08-25T19:42:51Z")
I don’t think it’s too much of a fan-wank to think that the same supernatural reflexes and split second precognition that allows a Force user to parry a blaster bolt would also allow for Vader to not take any shots at Luke that he knew with pretty good certainty Luke could avoid. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/117 "2020-08-26T15:09:01Z")
Yoda explains what he meant in the very next exchange of lines: “Unfortunate that I know the truth?” “No! Unfortunate that you rushed to face him… that incomplete was your training. Not ready for the burden were you.” They latch onto “unfortunate” but it’s the same reason that it was “unexpected.” Yoda had hoped to train Luke fully, then break the news that Vader was his father, then send him off to confront him when he was prepared. Or at least train him fully and make sure he was prepared before confronting him, so that if Vader revealed the truth then, Luke would be able to handle it. Vader torturing Han to provoke Luke, via his Force-connection to his friends, into leaving Yoda too soon is what was unexpected, and unfortunate. As for Luke being raised on Tatooine, with the Skywalker name, two things come to mind: 1. maybe Luke’s hiding being so “obvious” was a bit of a decoy. If Vader did find him and kill/take him, “there is another” more hidden Skywalker, who would be protected by the fact that Vader would think he got his only heir, and hence wouldn’t look for Leia. 2. Given what we see in ROTJ, I’m convinced that Palpatine was pretty disappointed in Vader being maimed, and was playing the long game, hoping that Luke would take his father’s place. It’s entirely possible that Palpatine knew all along where Luke was and kept that knowledge from Vader, either through some sort of Force mind control/memory altering, or simply giving him orders that always kept him away from Tatooine. (This becomes even more likely if you bring in evidence from TPM and ROTS that Anakin’s birth could be the work of Palpatine and/or Darth Plagueis, making his bloodline that much more important, and his maiming that much more of a setback to the plan.) ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/118 "2020-08-26T18:11:48Z")
Ben Kenobi is a damned liar! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/119 "2020-08-26T18:37:53Z")
From a certain point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016/120 "2020-08-26T18:44:59Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > As for Luke being raised on Tatooine, with the Skywalker name, two things come to mind: > > 1. maybe Luke’s hiding being so “obvious” was a bit of a decoy. If Vader did find him and kill/take him, “there is another” more hidden Skywalker, who would be protected by the fact that Vader would think he got his only heir, and hence wouldn’t look for Leia. > 2. Given what we see in ROTJ, I’m convinced that Palpatine was pretty disappointed in Vader being maimed, and was playing the long game, hoping that Luke would take his father’s place. It’s entirely possible that Palpatine knew all along where Luke was and kept that knowledge from Vader, either through some sort of Force mind control/memory altering, or simply giving him orders that always kept him away from Tatooine. (This becomes even more likely if you bring in evidence from TPM and ROTS that Anakin’s birth could be the work of Palpatine and/or Darth Plagueis, making his bloodline that much more important, and his maiming that much more of a setback to the plan.) Both of these are great theories! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-it-unexpected-that-darth-vader-would-tell-luke-he-is-his-father/917016.md?page=7)