# Why was Jim Croce in jail "doing 90 days for non-support"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434 "2005-03-07T21:55:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/1 "2005-03-07T21:55:29Z")
In the song “Car Wash Blues,” Jim Croce sings that the main character was…well, let me just quote the first stanza. (Bolding mine) Well, I had just got out from the county prison **Doin’ ninety days for non-support** Tried to find me an executive position But no matter how smooth I talked They wouldn’t listen to the fact that I was a genius The man say, we got all that we can use. Now i got them steadily depressin’, low down mind messin’ Working at the car wash blues My question is, what is “non-support?” Was this supposed to refer to the non-payment of child support, or something else? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/2 "2005-03-07T22:02:50Z")
Yes, it sounds like he did a little stint for not paying his child support. 90 days is a common figure. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/3 "2005-03-08T00:36:40Z")
Odd, I’d always interpreted it to be a reference to being jailed for vagrancy - that is he had no means of support, and no living place. A sentence that is no longer often enforced. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/4 "2005-03-08T00:42:22Z")
Odd, I’d always interpreted it to be a reference to being jailed for vagrancy - that is he had no means of support, and no living place. A sentence that is no longer often enforced. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/5 "2005-03-08T02:36:34Z")
I’m with Loki- it used to be fairly common for hoboes, vagrants and drifters who had no fixed address, no job and “no visible means of support” to get arrested and sent to the county jail for a short stint. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/6 "2005-03-08T04:23:37Z")
[This page from a military site](http://www.knox.army.mil/center/ig/non-support.htm) seems to attach the meaning to child and spousal obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/7 "2005-03-08T04:41:35Z")
Gotta be failure to pay child support. There has never been a time in the US when you could be arrested for being unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/8 "2005-03-08T04:45:58Z")
In the early days of the Federal government, you could be jailed for bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/9 "2005-03-08T04:46:42Z")
But that doesn’t necessarily mean that Jim Croce was singing about his own experience. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/10 "2005-03-08T04:59:24Z")
Another song came into my head It’s called “Next Time” and it’s performed by Sam Butera and Louie Prima One of the lines is: When I got to the airport, here comes that man Failure to support. The man singing the song is singing about how he doesn’t have any money to pay his ex-wife anything. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/11 "2005-03-08T05:46:05Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Gotta be failure to pay child support. There has never been a time in the US when you could be arrested for being unemployed. I have to disagree, what were hoboes arrested for, if not for the crime of having no job and no place to live? This sort of anti-vagrancy law has gone by the wayside, but it used to be pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/12 "2005-03-08T06:05:40Z")
Did failure to pay child support have the media attention and stigma during Croce’s time as it does now? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/13 "2005-03-08T06:21:18Z")
Just poking around my subscription to the Historical LA Times on ProQuest. I found an article from 1927 about a Los Angeles County judge who sentenced three men to a year of hard labor for failure to pay child support. The judge said he wanted to make an example out of the men. The three men asked for probation, but their appeals were denied. One guy ran out on a wife and seven kids and was planning to flee the state. A 1938 article in the LA Times details the sad story of an unnamed Harvard grad (just case numbers were used) who came to L.A. with his wife and three kids, but never found gainful employment. He eventually left his wife and moved back to his home in New York. His wife sued for child support and eventually the State of California had him extradited so he could sort out the situation. He didn’t have the money to pay so he was sent to jail. So, I’m initially inclined to say that there was a stigma to not paying child support. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/14 "2005-03-08T11:47:21Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > But that doesn’t necessarily mean that Jim Croce was singing about his own experience. Exactly. Don’t mean to speak ill of the dead, but that guy was just ripping off black music, inflections and subject matter big time. Of course, you could say that about most white musicians, but I found his stuff particularly egregious, like the old blackface comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/15 "2005-03-08T14:07:39Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Exactly. Don’t mean to speak ill of the dead, but that guy was just ripping off black music, inflections and subject matter big time. Of course, you could say that about most white musicians, but I found his stuff particularly egregious, like the old blackface comedy. I’m curious why you might feel this way. I always thought of Croce as folk-oriented. Can you give us some examples? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/16 "2005-03-08T14:27:14Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Exactly. Don’t mean to speak ill of the dead, but that guy was just ripping off black music, inflections and subject matter big time. Of course, you could say that about most white musicians, but I found his stuff particularly egregious, like the old blackface comedy. When black musicians that were born around the same time or after Jim Croce play similar songs are they also ripping off black music big time? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/17 "2005-03-08T15:17:19Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > I have to disagree, what were hoboes arrested for, if not for the crime of having no job and no place to live? They were arrested for “vagrancy” or “loitering.” That’s what the charges were called, both in the law and in common parlance. They were not arrested for “non-support.” “Non-support” has a specific meaning, and it means failure to pay child support: [Example.](http://www1.dshs.wa.gov/dcs/contemptindex.shtml) [Example.](http://www.bienvilleparish.org/clerk/nonsupport.asp) [Example.](http://www.co.bingham.id.us/Prosecutor/child_support.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/18 "2005-03-08T16:43:56Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > They were arrested for “vagrancy” or “loitering.” That’s what the charges were called, both in the law and in common parlance. They were not arrested for “non-support.” Although I agree that a reference to “non-support” most likely means the failure to support a spouse or child, you are wrong when you claim that > [@](#): > > There has never been a time in the US when you could be arrested for being unemployed. I (mostly) agree with **OtakuLoki**. Vagrancy statutes could be used to jail persons who travelled with “no visible means of support”. (cite below) Sometimes vagrancy laws were used against local petty criminals against whom no other crimes could be proven. [http://www.crimeandpunishment.net/MN/chart.html](http://www.crimeandpunishment.net/MN/chart.html) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/19 "2005-03-08T17:15:18Z")
Well, I was probably making an overly-broad statement. Here’s Jacksonville’s old vagrancy statute (which was [struck down by the Supreme Court](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=405&invol=156) for being unconstitutionally vague): > [@](#): > > Rogues and vagabonds, or dissolute persons who go about begging, common gamblers, persons who use juggling or unlawful games or plays, common drunkards, common night walkers, thieves, pilferers or pickpockets, traders in stolen property, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons, keepers of gambling places, common railers and brawlers, persons wandering or strolling around from place to place without any lawful purpose or object, habitual loafers, disorderly persons, persons neglecting all lawful business and habitually spending their time by frequenting houses of ill fame, gaming houses, or places where alcoholic beverages are sold or served, persons able to work but habitually living upon the earnings of their wives or minor children shall be deemed vagrants and, upon conviction in the Municipal Court shall be punished as provided for Class D offenses. Now while the statute references “habitual loafers” and those “habitually living upon the earnings of their wives or minor children,” it does not make unemployment in and of itself a crime. As a practical matter, cops didn’t scour the countryside looking for unemployed people to lock up. They arrested people who were loitering on sidewalks, camping in public places, begging for money and otherwise being bothersome. The cops arrested such people on charges of vagrancy. It’s a fine distinction, I’ll grant you. One can easily see how being unemployed might lead one into a situation where he gets arrested for vagrancy. But it’s the vagrancy that’s the crime, not the unemployment _per se_. At any rate, the character in Jim Croce’s song wasn’t being held for vagrancy. He was being held for “non-support,” which has the specific meaning of “failure to pay child support” as shown by the links in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434/20 "2005-03-08T17:29:43Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > In the early days of the Federal government, you could be jailed for bankruptcy. Say what? I thought that the United States has never had debtor’s prisons. (Besides, if a guy can’t pay his bills, how is locking him up supposed to improve the situation?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jim-croce-in-jail-doing-90-days-for-non-support/293434.md?page=2)