# Why was Joker 2 so bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 29, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412 "2024-10-29T17:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/1 "2024-10-29T17:09:43Z")
I did not get a chance to see it but I intend to when it comes out on streaming. I see a lot of reviews on youtube that it is the worst movie of 2024. I’m avoiding watching those to avoid spoilers but can someone paint a general view of why it was so bad? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/2 "2024-10-29T17:46:56Z")
I haven’t watched it but I’ve seen plenty of spoilers, and the gist is that the director eschewed all fan service and decided to make a jukebox musical that just happened to star Joaquin Phoenix playing character that shared some similarities to Arthur Fleck from Joker. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/3 "2024-10-29T18:20:17Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > and the gist is that the director eschewed all fan service and decided to make a jukebox musical So no issues that Harley was a patient and not his psychologist? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/4 "2024-10-29T18:32:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So no issues that Harley was a patient and not his psychologist? I think that’s a bit of interesting backstory in most versions but isn’t necessary for the character…and certainly not for the world of this Joker. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/5 "2024-10-29T20:12:21Z")
If anything, it seems to me that the director decided to overtly troll the kind of viewers who don’t get subtext and whose takeaway from the first movie was “Arthur Fleck is so cool and I want to be like him”, and made a movie about toxic fandom where a man’s own fandom turns on him after he decides he doesn’t want to be who they think he is. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/6 "2024-10-30T04:19:35Z")
I went in not knowing it’s a musical, so that was a weird surprise, and also made Lady Gaga’s inclusion feel like stunt casting. She was good and Joaquin was outstanding. Made me sad to see him acting his heart out in such a dud. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/7 "2024-10-30T07:49:39Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > I went in not knowing it’s a musical Wait, what…?! They made the sequel a musical? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/8 "2024-10-30T08:13:19Z")
I think it was bad simply because there was nothing good about it. Whatever it was trying to do, it failed. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/9 "2024-10-30T08:41:29Z")
Whilst this is a comedy channel, the reasons why bad movies are bad is usually pretty faithfully described: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/6Ufar-niEtA/maxresdefault.jpg "Joker: Folie À Deux Pitch Meeting") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ufar-niEtA) ---
**Author:** ![Cee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cee/32/18345_2.png) [@Cee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cee)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/10 "2024-12-08T04:51:19Z")
Thought it was an alright movie. I honestly just felt really bad for Joker and how he was treated. I thought Lady Gaga as an asylum patient was hot but I prefer her without makeup and thought they’d be going a different diraction with it. Overall, it shoulda been a lot better. I get why they wanted to do smth with Joker but it just didn’t land well. They shoulda done smth different with the sequel and not have made Joker be a coping mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/11 "2024-12-19T03:21:23Z")
Just watched it on Max. With its worst movie ever reviews I was expecting awful. It wasn’t. It was a bit weird but I actually thought it sorta worked. Not sure who its audience is though? Not the usual Batman universe crowd. I wouldn’t be surprised if it became a cult classic in a decade or so. Finding its audience eventually. It is also weird watching crowds cheering for a character who murdered people who they felt deserved it with recent the recent news cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/12 "2024-12-19T03:27:55Z")
Besides the names “Joker” and “Harley Quinn”, what do either of these two characters have to do with the many iterations of these two I have seen over the years? They could have named him “Patrick Bateman” and it would have served just as well…which is not much at all. As far as I can see those names were just franchised out to bring in people, who spent approximately 17 seconds figuring out that those things in the poke were most definitely pigs. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/13 "2024-12-19T03:51:34Z")
The Joker of these two movies is a consistent character. But this clearly a different universe of the DC multiverse than our usual Batman one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/14 "2024-12-19T04:10:00Z")
I don’t see the second musical version as being the same as much as the one previously made, and either one could be seen as a test to see if name similarities alone could be enough as far as the audience was concerned. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/15 "2024-12-19T04:29:10Z")
Oh I see them in direct continuity. The musical aspects are his delusions and imagination. Seeing his world largely filtered through his imagined perception of it was an aspect of the first one as well. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/16 "2024-12-19T04:30:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As far as I can see those names were just franchised out to bring in people, who spent approximately 17 seconds figuring out that those things in the poke were most definitely pigs. Pigs are what you _do_ want in pokes. If your poke has a pig in it, you are a satisfied customer. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/17 "2024-12-19T04:36:13Z")
I prefer tuna poke. Pork poke does not appeal… ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/18 "2024-12-19T11:19:02Z")
It strikes me as they’ve now twice had some success with a “well here’s a good script for a movie, let’s just stick a DC name on it, and claim alternative universe”. Original Joker and The Penguin series (both of these could be “the rise of dude with a scar on his face”) being those. It does seem unnecessary to remove Harley Quinn from the half decent back story of her being his doctor who he drives insane, and she becomes his girlfriend. And taking Lady Gaga, who is usually plastered with makeup, to play a character usually plastered with makeup, and get her to play it without being plastered in makeup, does seem like an unusual choice. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-joker-2-so-bad/1009412/19 "2024-12-19T15:42:52Z")
If he had gone to a party dressed like that my first thought would have been “Stopped at the drug store five minutes ago with no idea at all”, and without the label “Harley Quinn” would have been my 7453 guess…right after “1973 VW Bug with 1 flat tire stuck in a Radio Shack parking lot at 4 in the morning”.