# Why was mayonnaise so different in France? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779 "2007-08-07T19:17:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/41 "2007-08-08T14:33:39Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] So what origin would you have for _all-i-oli_, which the French spell correctly although they don’t call garlic “all” nor oil “oli”? [/QUOTE] I thought it was “aioli” in French. The Spanish “allioli,” as I know it, is an emulsion of just garlic and olive oil made in a mortar. The Provencal “aioli” has the addition of egg yolk, the defining characteristic of mayonnaise sauces. My guess would be the inspiration for aioli is quite obviously Catalonian, but the yolk and subsequence mayonnaise-like emulsion is the French twist. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/42 "2007-08-08T14:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I still have a soft spot for Velveeta and Miracle Whip sammiches, [/QUOTE] Hence your user name. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/43 "2007-08-08T15:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I thought it was “aioli” in French. The Spanish “allioli,” as I know it, is an emulsion of just garlic and olive oil made in a mortar. The Provencal “aioli” has the addition of egg yolk, the defining characteristic of mayonnaise sauces. My guess would be the inspiration for aioli is quite obviously Catalonian, but the yolk and subsequence mayonnaise-like emulsion is the French twist. [/QUOTE] The jars in my supermarket (French, of course, I mean, why buy in Switzerland or Germany when you actually sleep in France?) say allioli or even all-i-oli with the dashes. If it’s made with egg, then a Catalan would claim it’s not real allioli, but a lot of other people who have acquired the name recently use it for garlic mayo… which is what you describe, yes. Was that cook in Mahón french? Dunnow. All I can do is give “my” version as I got it from the Spanish Academies of the Language, Catalan tradition, Spanish tradition and an observation of “the strange things that happen to cookstuffs as they become popular” (for example, salsa brava moving from being real mayo with red pepper, to being a mixture of bottled-mayo and ketchup). ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/44 "2007-08-08T15:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] After a lifetime of exposure to the products, I find Kraft Miracle Whip and Hellman’s Real Mayonnaise entirely indistinguishable. I would put either on any of the preparations you mention and not notice the difference. [/QUOTE] Are you certain that one of those products hasn’t completely singed your taste buds? Maybe that explains it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/45 "2007-08-08T15:16:37Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Was that cook in Mahón french? [/QUOTE] [Here’s the usual explanation.](http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/SauceHistory.htm) > [@](#): > > ``` > * Most authorities believe the first batch of this mixture of egg yolks, oil and seasonings was whipped up to celebrate the 1756 French capture of Mahon, a city on the Spanish Isle of Minorca, by forces under Louis-Francois-Armad de Vignerot du Plessis, duc de Richelieu (1696-1788). The Duke, or more likely, his personal chef, is credited with inventing mayonnaise, as his chef created a victory feast that was to include a sauce made of cream and eggs. Realizing that there was no cream in the kitchen, the chef substituted olive oil for the cream and a new culinary creation was born. Supposedly the chef named the new sauce "Mahonnaise" in honor of the Duc's victory. Besides enjoying a reputation as a skillful military leader, the Duke was also widely known as a bon vivant with the odd habit of inviting his guests to dine in the nude. > > ``` No explanation as to whether the Duke’s personal chef was French or Spanish, but I would assume French. I’m surprised to hear that aioli is sold as “allioli” in France. I’ve only seen it as “aioli” myself, but I admit I was never paying that close attention to it. [Here’s a jar of the French stuff.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bienmanger.com/images/genre/900_Aioli_Garlic_Sauce.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bienmanger.com/2F900_Aioli_Garlic_Sauce.html&h=300&w=238&sz=12&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=MuMa_2oZ7bGstM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=92&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daioli%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) As for the linguistic derivation of “aioli,” what if I told you “ai” means “garlic” and “oli” means “oil” in Occitan, a language mostly spoken in Southern France, although it does dip into [a sliver of Spain and Italy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Occitanie.png)? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/46 "2007-08-08T15:17:04Z")
I wouldn’t discount it, Balthisar. But, seriously, I don’t think my experience is unique in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/47 "2007-08-08T15:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I wouldn’t discount it, Balthisar. But, seriously, I don’t think my experience is unique in this regard. [/QUOTE] Really? Miracle Whip, from what I remember, has a different texture and much different taste from Hellman’s. Most notably, Miracle Whip is flavored with a bunch of stuff and has a more, I dunno, tart and tangy taste than typical mayo. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/48 "2007-08-08T15:29:58Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] No explanation as to whether the Duke’s personal chef was French or Spanish, but I would assume French. [/QUOTE] A brief hijack: With your knowledge of sauces, is the military chef being asked by his commander to put some delicate sauce “to go” and shooting himself an urban legend? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/49 "2007-08-08T15:35:23Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Really? Miracle Whip, from what I remember, has a different texture and much different taste from Hellman’s. Most notably, Miracle Whip is flavored with a bunch of stuff and has a more, I dunno, tart and tangy taste than typical mayo. [/QUOTE] The only time I can detect a difference is in a side-by-side taste test. If you just put one or the other in a sandwich or potato salad, I’d never know. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/50 "2007-08-08T17:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] [Here’s the usual explanation.](http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/SauceHistory.htm) No explanation as to whether the Duke’s personal chef was French or Spanish, but I would assume French. I’m surprised to hear that aioli is sold as “allioli” in France. I’ve only seen it as “aioli” myself, but I admit I was never paying that close attention to it. [Here’s a jar of the French stuff.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bienmanger.com/images/genre/900_Aioli_Garlic_Sauce.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bienmanger.com/2F900_Aioli_Garlic_Sauce.html&h=300&w=238&sz=12&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=MuMa_2oZ7bGstM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=92&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daioli%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) As for the linguistic derivation of “aioli,” what if I told you “ai” means “garlic” and “oli” means “oil” in Occitan, a language mostly spoken in Southern France, although it does dip into [a sliver of Spain and Italy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Occitanie.png)? [/QUOTE] I would tell you that the similarities between Langue d’Oc and Catalan (which includes Provençal) is the reason why I specified they’re considered different languages 🙂 Anyway, this thread was supposed to be about taste and recipes, not about linguistics… my apologies for the hijack. I won’t be posting again except if I remember to bring my camera in the next trip to the supermarket. I recall seeing several spellings; the “proper Catalan” ones struck me for the same reason as seeing sobrasada did last Monday: it’s not something I’d eat at home, but it’s a taste of home nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/51 "2007-08-08T18:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] I won’t be posting again except if I remember to bring my camera in the next trip to the supermarket. I recall seeing several spellings; [/QUOTE] Oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t disbelieve you at all. It’s just that I’m more familiar with the aioli spelling of the garlic mayonnaise in France. I’m sure there’s aioli sold as “allioli” in France, but I’ve always been under the impression that “aioli” is how it’s more commonly referred to in France. And what I know as Catalan allioli is a little bit different that what we think of as aioli, which is more-or-less garlic mayonnaise. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779/52 "2007-08-08T18:18:18Z")
Anyhow, somebody at Wikipedia seems to agree with me, although I do know I have seen Spanish allioli with egg yolks somewhere before. > [@](#): > > Allioli > > Allioli (from all i oli, Catalan for “garlic and oil”, pronounced IPA [aʎi’ɔli]) is a typical paste of Catalonia. It is made by pounding garlic with olive oil and salt in a mortar until a smooth texture is obtained. It differs from Provençal aioli in that it does not use eggs. edit: Ah, crap, my apologies. I somehow skipped over one of your posts, **Nava** where you do cover this. Please disregard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mayonnaise-so-different-in-france/414779.md?page=2)