# Why was MSWAS warned? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781 "2009-08-26T16:22:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/1 "2009-08-26T16:22:29Z")
He got a warning in this thread: > **[RIP Mary Jo Kopechne](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529543)** > > I don’t hate Ted Kennedy or think that this defines him, but he did murder a woman and got away with it due to his power and influence, and I’m uncomfortable with him being lionized completely without it being recognized. As far as I know he never... Now, his thread questioning that decision is summarily locked, and frankly, it looks to me like **Tuba** flamed him in her lockdown message. What rule did he break with the “RIP Mary Jo Kopechne” thread? Unless there’s more to this story than meets the eye, it looks to me like maybe it’s perfectly acceptable to insult/belittle/otherwise disparage conservative celebrities when they die, but dare to speak against a dead liberal, and you get the mod smack down. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/2 "2009-08-26T16:24:06Z")
Trashing people of any stripe in MPSIMS is frowned on. Note the GD thread. Lots more vitriol in there, no warnings (yet, anyway). The Pit thread that will inevitably happen will also be without warning unless people go too far. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/3 "2009-08-26T16:27:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Trashing people of any stripe in MPSIMS is frowned on. Wouldn’t the normal response be to simply move the thread to another forum, like IMHO or the Pit? And how is mentioning Kopechne trashing Kennedy? There is no dispute that he was driving the car, and that he fled the scene. There is reason to believe he may have been under the influence of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/4 "2009-08-26T16:29:31Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Trashing people of any stripe in MPSIMS is frowned on. It’s OK to some level as there’s a “Kathy Lee Gifford makes me puke” thread in the same forum, and… now that I think of it, I can’t remember where the Falwell thread was located. GD or the Pit would have been much better starting places, and I suspect that after his previous thread closing, it was perhaps too much? Still seemed a tad harsh. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/5 "2009-08-26T16:30:23Z")
Exactly. I was ready to flame out, but since this thread exists, I won’t. I think it’s highly hypocrtical and pretty disgusting that my thread was locked. RIP Mary Jo Kopechne ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/6 "2009-08-26T16:31:03Z")
I came here to start exactly this thread. It would be interesting to hear what the offense was considered to be. Specifically, would it be OK to start the same thread in the Pit? Was it that it was the wrong forum? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/7 "2009-08-26T16:31:39Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > It’s OK to some level as there’s a “Kathy Lee Gifford makes me puke” thread in the same forum, and… now that I think of it, **I can’t remember where the Falwell thread was located.** [MSPIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420957&highlight=Jerry+Falwell) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/8 "2009-08-26T16:34:02Z")
You closed [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529543) and issued a warning, accusing **mswas** of “stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.” Personally, i don’t see it. Let me say for the record that anyone who reacts to the words “Ted Kennedy” with a Pavlovian “Mary Jo Kopechne” is stupid. And i was going to tell **mswas** exactly that (in MPSIMS-friendly language) in the thread you closed. I thought the thread was ill-considered, and i also thought that his claim that “I don’t hate Ted Kennedy or think that this defines him” was pretty disingenuous considering he chose to start a thread on that very topic on the occasion of Kennedy’s death. But the fact is that, for plenty of people, the whole Mary Jo thing is the first thing that comes to mind when they think of Ted Kennedy. The fact that such people have no imagination, or some political axe to grind, is irrelevant. There was no reason to close the thread; you could have moved it to The Pit, or warned people to stay MPSIMS-friendly and left it where it was. I thought closing was a bad call. As **mswas** rightly pointed out in [this (now-locked) thread)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529547), there have been far worse things said about other recently-deceased public figures on these boards. And i really loved **TubaDiva** ’s response in closing that thread: > [@TubaDiva](#): > > Mswas, you’ve already been warned today for trying to foment argument on the board. Oh my God! Fomenting argument? Whatever will be next? Encouraging debate? Facilitating disagreement? Fanning the flames of controversy? Where will it end? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/9 "2009-08-26T16:35:56Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [MSPIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420957&highlight=Jerry+Falwell) :rolleyes: Utter hypocrisy. Moderation may as well be by robot, programmed with random decision making. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/10 "2009-08-26T16:36:15Z")
Well, crap. I just started a thread on exactly the same topic, and then noticed that someone had beaten me to it. Here’s my OP from the other thread. Could the mods please close that one? * * * You [**twickster**] closed [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529543) and issued a warning, accusing **mswas** of “stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.” Personally, i don’t see it. Let me say for the record that anyone who reacts to the words “Ted Kennedy” with a Pavlovian “Mary Jo Kopechne” is stupid. And i was going to tell **mswas** exactly that (in MPSIMS-friendly language) in the thread you closed. I thought the thread was ill-considered, and i also thought that his claim that “I don’t hate Ted Kennedy or think that this defines him” was pretty disingenuous considering he chose to start a thread on that very topic on the occasion of Kennedy’s death. But the fact is that, for plenty of people, the whole Mary Jo thing is the first thing that comes to mind when they think of Ted Kennedy. The fact that such people have no imagination, or some political axe to grind, is irrelevant. There was no reason to close the thread; you could have moved it to The Pit, or warned people to stay MPSIMS-friendly and left it where it was. I thought closing was a bad call. As **mswas** rightly pointed out in [this (now-locked) thread)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529547), there have been far worse things said about other recently-deceased public figures on these boards. And i really loved **TubaDiva** ’s response in closing that thread: > [@TubaDiva](#): > > Mswas, you’ve already been warned today for trying to foment argument on the board. Oh my God! Fomenting argument? Whatever will be next? Encouraging debate? Facilitating disagreement? Fanning the flames of controversy? Where will it end? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/11 "2009-08-26T16:38:20Z")
There is already a thread on this. And yes, the consensus is that this warning was dubious and ill-conceived. Tuba’s comment was ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/12 "2009-08-26T16:38:37Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You closed [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529543) and issued a warning, accusing **mswas** of “stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.” > > Personally, i don’t see it. > > Let me say for the record that anyone who reacts to the words “Ted Kennedy” with a Pavlovian “Mary Jo Kopechne” is stupid. And i was going to tell **mswas** exactly that (in MPSIMS-friendly language) in the thread you closed. I thought the thread was ill-considered, and i also thought that his claim that “I don’t hate Ted Kennedy or think that this defines him” was pretty disingenuous considering he chose to start a thread on that very topic on the occasion of Kennedy’s death. This is tortured logic that I have never understood here. 90% of the board parrots the same party line so I mention the stuff that people aren’t really saying much, so if I don’t also mouth the same words everyone else is mouthing my mentioning something critical means that I am _ONLY_ critical of that person? This is quite common here and I must admit it’s quite baffling. That’s just my style, I like to say what other people aren’t saying. I’m a gadfly and an iconoclast. I can’t stand when people idolize things without looking at the other side of it, that’s what drives me, not a hate for the icon that I am examining. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/13 "2009-08-26T16:41:39Z")
**mhendo** I would really like an honest appraisal of what I see as baffling logic on your part. I posted this in response to you in the other thread. > [@](#): > > This is tortured logic that I have never understood here. 90% of the board parrots the same party line so I mention the stuff that people aren’t really saying much, so if I don’t also mouth the same words everyone else is mouthing my mentioning something critical means that I am ONLY critical of that person? This is quite common here and I must admit it’s quite baffling. That’s just my style, I like to say what other people aren’t saying. I’m a gadfly and an iconoclast. I can’t stand when people idolize things without looking at the other side of it, that’s what drives me, not a hate for the icon that I am examining. Why is it that if I bring up a view that certain people hold I am automatically part of that group? I really don’t see how that follows. The man killed a woman. That was a human life, as valuable and big and important as the life of the man who killed her. I posted it because I don’t like that this woman’s life is relegated to being merely a footnote in Ted Kennedy’s bio, that she doesn’t get to be treated like a real and actual person, that she isn’t allowed a thread of her own. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/14 "2009-08-26T16:44:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [MSPIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420957&highlight=Jerry+Falwell) :rolleyes: Well, so much for the notion that it was the wrong forum. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/15 "2009-08-26T16:46:32Z")
Seems that the powers that be haven’t quite learned from the last episode of over-zealous reaction here. \ If the reason that the thread was locked was because **twickster** thinks it improper for MPSIMS, then the lockdown post should say so. If **mswas** is being warned for starting threads in the wrong forum, that should be stated in the warning. If the reason that the thread was locked down is because **twickster** thinks that **mswas** is trolling, the warning and the lockdown should state that. If the reason that the thread was locked down is because **twickster** thinks **mswas** wanted to get into an argument with someone over the fact that Ted Kennedy got too much positive press given that he killed Mary Jo Kopechne and was never properly punished for it, then that is not a valid reason to close a thread. People here start arguments all the time on a large number of subjects. It would be different if **mswas** had dumped this view into an RIP Ted Kennedy thread (that’s threadshitting), but that’s not what happened here. The fact that **mswas** has recently been involved in some posting here that is borderline violative of the “do not be a jerk” rule is not sufficient reason to jump all over any post that has overtones of combativeness. If you really think that **mswas** doesn’t understand the concept of what to say here, suspension is the answer; else, wait to see what develops and if it gets out of hand, deal with those to take it there, on ALL sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/16 "2009-08-26T16:47:12Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Why is it that if I bring up a view that certain people hold I am automatically part of that group? I really don’t see how that follows. The man killed a woman. That was a human life, as valuable and big and important as the life of the man who killed her. I posted it because I don’t like that this woman’s life is relegated to being merely a footnote in Ted Kennedy’s bio, that she doesn’t get to be treated like a real and actual person, that she isn’t allowed a thread of her own. I’m really not interested in hashing out your delusions regarding Ted Kennedy. My only purpose in coming to ATMB was to protest the thread closing and the warning. I thought your thread should have been allowed to stand, so that everyone could comment on its stupidity, and i thought the warning was completely inappropriate. That’s all i’m interested in talking about in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/17 "2009-08-26T16:49:42Z")
And for what it is worth, I agree with the thoughts about Ted Kennedy. I’ve never been able to listen to him or look at him without thinking of Mary Jo Kopechne, and despite the fact that Ted Kennedy gave one of the most stirring political speeches ever, I have wished for some time that he would either own up to what happened, truly apologize, and take his lumps, or get the hell out of politics. And all that thought process came back this morning as I read that he had died. And I’ll be happy to debate my opinion, or discuss it, as appropriate, in IMHO, GD, MPSIMS, teh Pit, or wherever such discussion is proper here. Which makes me no different than **mswas** I suppose. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/18 "2009-08-26T16:50:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The fact that **mswas** has recently been involved in some posting here that is borderline violative of the “do not be a jerk” rule is not sufficient reason to jump all over any post that has overtones of combativeness. If you really think that **mswas** doesn’t understand the concept of what to say here, suspension is the answer; else, wait to see what develops and if it gets out of hand, deal with those to take it there, on ALL sides of the issue. I really am starting to think I don’t understand. I am getting piled on by a bunch of people for being a jerk in precisely the same way I feel like they are a jerk to me. **Tomndebb** thinks I have some kind of mental problem. Maybe I do, I really don’t get what makes condescension kosher and what makes it beyond the pale. I have similar problems on other message boards because I have an acerbic personality, but nothing to the degree of vitriole I am met with here. I really do not start threads merely to piss people off. I’m being honest here. That really isn’t my intention. I am bothered by the fact that Mary Jo Kopechne’s life is relegated to a byline in Ted Kennedy’s bio. That doesn’t overshadow everything Kennedy has done, but everything Kennedy has done seems to overshadow her, and that’s very sad to me. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/19 "2009-08-26T16:52:17Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m really not interested in hashing out your delusions regarding Ted Kennedy. So being sad about Mary Jo Kopechne is a delusion now? And people say that _I_ am condescending. It’s interesting and very telling to me that caring about Mary Jo Kopechne is ‘stupid’. The woman is about to be completely forgotten by history. That’s not sad to you? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/20 "2009-08-26T16:55:57Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > And I’ll be happy to debate my opinion, or discuss it, as appropriate, in IMHO, GD, MPSIMS, teh Pit, or wherever such discussion is proper here. Which makes me no different than **mswas** I suppose. :dubious: Have you been baiting people in several other unrelated threads in the last week or so? If no, then you _are_ different than **mswas** IMO. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781.md?page=2)