# Why was Seven banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610 "2009-07-28T22:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/341 "2009-07-29T19:51:04Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > Then you’re still wrong, I neither implied nor said that you deserve to be called a shit Actually, that is exactly what you did. You said it was funny - and accurate. Apparently you are getting away with it, as **Syntropy** is with his trolling remark, so you will have to try a little harder. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/342 "2009-07-29T19:51:57Z")
> [@Rolken](#): > > > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > > > The mods do not (and cannot) police private messages or emails. We couldn’t read your PMs even if we wanted to. > > This seems like a copout. Surely as administrator and representative of the board, Tuba should police _herself_ in her PMs for the purpose of maintaining good relations between the leadership and membership. In what way is it a copout? I was not discussing \*\*TubaDiva \*\*or her PM. I neither condemned nor defended her or what she said. The question was why she didn’t get warned/admonished/whatever for her PM, and I said we don’t police _anybody_’s PMs. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > > > It is against the rules to post private correspondence from anybody without their permission. > > Link to the rule, please? > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Wait, when was this rule published or posted? I never saw it or heard of it before. > > It is usually the polite and proper thing to do, but an actual rule? This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. From that same rule thread: > [@FAQ - Rules for Posting at the Straight Dope Message Boards](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faq-rules-for-posting-at-the-straight-dope-message-boards/369395/7): > > At the SDMB we take copyright violations seriously and this is an issue close to the heart for the owners of the SDMB (the Chicago Reader). All of that said, I may not be up-to-date on this. Let me check with the admins and make sure I’m correct before continuing to discuss it. > [@wring](#): > > Bullshit. Or at least it’s never been enforced before - there’s been any number of threads where folks post all or part of emails they’ve gotten from wide variety of folks. I’m trying to be polite and helpful, **wring**. Mind returning the favor? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/343 "2009-07-29T19:58:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Apparently you are getting away with it, as **Syntropy** is with his trolling remark, so you will have to try a little harder. Her. Really, this is not the first time I have said so. Please try for at least one factually accurate post. InvisibleWombat; I understand the prohibition against copyrighted material, but do PM’s fall under that category? In addition, someone upthread (dogbutler I think) posted they have a quote from correspondence in their sig; should they remove it? Is it only prohibitive when that quote paints the corresponding party in a poor light? ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/344 "2009-07-29T19:58:48Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. Mate, this is painfully stupid as a reason to justify banning someone. At best - at best - it is an argument for a warning. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/345 "2009-07-29T19:58:57Z")
I appreciate that you’re attempting to answer. “bullshit” was specifically addressed by **Fenris** as an ‘ok’ word to use in this forum. It was not meant as a personal attack, and I’m rather dumbfounded that you perceived it as such. In your explanation here - please consider that when a mod specifically posts “This is a rule” and then has to shift around and explain that it’s their own interpretation, taken to the extreme of another rule, it does indeed look like rules and explanations therein are rather arbitrary - can you not see that? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/346 "2009-07-29T19:59:03Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. :dubious: Copyright? Really? That’s a pretty weird reason to argue posting a PM is against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/347 "2009-07-29T19:59:28Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But what seems most odd to me is that it seems as though it means there can be no rulebreaking as pertains to the contents of messages. If I send a pm to \*\*TubaDiva \*\*consisting of horrifying, abusive language, under what rule would I be admonished? And, likewise, were **TubaDiva** to send a pm to me consisting of horrifying, abusive language, under what rule would she be admonished? This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. You sending an abusive PM to a mod or admin might be construed as breaking the prime rule (“don’t be a jerk”), but I don’t know. I’ve gotten some pretty nasty PMs and have never taken action on one. If you received a PM you considered abusive from a mod, I would recommend forwarding it to an admin. If you got one from an admin, I’d suggest forwarding it to **Ed Zotti**. I have no idea what to do if you get one from Ed ;). The problem, of course, is the definition of “abusive.” ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/348 "2009-07-29T20:04:49Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. From the same post you cited: > [@](#): > > If you’re quoting from short works – such as song lyrics, poems, short prose, etc: please **quote only what is sufficient to make your point. Generally, that would be a few lines** at most. That’s for works of which the copyright status is not at all questionable. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/349 "2009-07-29T20:07:27Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > From the same post you cited:That’s for works of which the copyright status is not at all questionable. Indeed. Copyright is a stunningly stupid excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/350 "2009-07-29T20:08:44Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Mate, this is painfully stupid as a reason to justify banning someone. At best - at best - it is an argument for a warning. Please look at what I said in context. I made it VERY clear that I was not a part of the decision to ban **Seven**. I was very specifically answering a question as to whether it was okay to quote PMs. > [@wring](#): > > “bullshit” was specifically addressed by **Fenris** as an ‘ok’ word to use in this forum. It was not meant as a personal attack, and I’m rather dumbfounded that you perceived it as such. I’m trying to be polite and answer some questions in the thread. I didn’t perceive your response as a personal attack, but there’s no question it was rude. > [@wring](#): > > In your explanation here - please consider that when a mod specifically posts “This is a rule” and then has to shift around and explain that it’s their own interpretation, taken to the extreme of another rule, it does indeed look like rules and explanations therein are rather arbitrary - can you not see that? I confess. I’ve been a moderator here for over a year, and I really don’t have that much cause to reread the rules. I thought it was specifically written there, but it appears that it isn’t. I was wrong. Still, I have been enforcing it the whole time I’ve been a mod and nobody has ever argued with me about it before. Perhaps because disclosing the contents of correspondence that people consider private is considered a serious breach of etiquette, no matter what your feeling on legality or ethics are. > [@Giraffe](#): > > Copyright? Really? That’s a pretty weird reason to argue posting a PM is against the rules. Why weird, **Giraffe**? It _is_ a copyright issue, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/351 "2009-07-29T20:09:50Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > In what way is it a copout? I was not discussing \*\*TubaDiva \*\*or her PM. I neither condemned nor defended her or what she said. The question was why she didn’t get warned/admonished/whatever for her PM, and I said we don’t police _anybody_’s PMs. > > This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. > > From that same rule thread: > > All of that said, I may not be up-to-date on this. Let me check with the admins and make sure I’m correct before continuing to discuss it. > > I’m trying to be polite and helpful, **wring**. Mind returning the favor? So now the justification is the PMs fall under the copyright rule? :dubious: If that is the case (and that is a huge if): 1. How many other posters have been insta-banned for posting copyrighted material? I seem to recall that they get told to knock it off. 2. Short bits of songs, poems, etc. have always been allowed under fair use. Why would taking one line out of a longer PM be any different? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/352 "2009-07-29T20:10:10Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. Seriously? That’s the best you can come up with? So, to sum up: Seven violated no explicitly written/posted rule, was banned by a capricious Mod, and now the Mods in general are furiously backpedaling to make it seem like this banning is somehow legitimate. Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/353 "2009-07-29T20:10:24Z")
I have to say I’m pretty surprised\* that an admin has not made a statement in this thread. It was my understanding that only admins could actually ban someone, so why hasn’t the person responsible for the banning come forward to explain their reasoning? Managers should not sit back and let their staff fight their battles for them. \*Ok, you got me, I’m not surprised at all. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/354 "2009-07-29T20:11:41Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Jonathan Swift you’re not. > Point being that a board without posters is like a forest without trees. Go ahead, open one (or any business at that) and run it like a fiefdom – good luck with that. > > In other news, Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead. Not exactly channeling the Dean ourself, are we? Yours was the implication that this place was being run like a fiefdom. If so, I see no signs of deforestation. The truth is, of course, that the vast majority of the members have no unpleasant interactions with the staff at all. The rules are hardly oppressive. > [@](#): > > That’s _your_ opinion which happens to coincide with that of TPTB – personally, I find the counter arguments presented to be much more convincing and logical. > > Just for fun, why don’t you attempt to respond to the query I was responding to with something that bears the slightest resemble to a coherent response? Do include chapter and verse used to make this decision, please. > > Take your time, I won’t be holding my breath. > > Affectaciously, > > ~NickInUpperLeftCorner You want a cite for an _opinion_? You are wise not to hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/355 "2009-07-29T20:12:33Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. > > You sending an abusive PM to a mod or admin might be construed as breaking the prime rule (“don’t be a jerk”), but I don’t know. I’ve gotten some pretty nasty PMs and have never taken action on one. > > If you received a PM you considered abusive from a mod, I would recommend forwarding it to an admin. If you got one from an admin, I’d suggest forwarding it to **Ed Zotti**. I have no idea what to do if you get one from Ed ;). > > The problem, of course, is the definition of “abusive.” What? What? I mean…what the fuck are you talking about here, dude? It’s against federal law (apparently) to share a PM on the board; however, it’s perfectly legal to forward a PM to a third party with the hopes that somebody, somewhere will do something about it. Unless, of course, the abusive PM is from an administrator, in which case, there’s literally no recourse because if you post it publically, you’ll be violating federal law (apparently) and, at the minimum, you will be banned. But all of that is a moot point, I guess, since you just implied that what Tuba said to Seven was _not_ abusive. I assume that’s because, by definition, SDMB admins cannot violate the number 1 SDMB rule (don’t be a jerk). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/356 "2009-07-29T20:14:09Z")
“bullshit” is rude? Huh. I’ll admit it’s not my “the pastor’s here” language, but fuck (not to be confused with “buttfuck”), I thought this was specifically an adult board. Hell, ‘bullshit’ doesn’t even get you a PG 13 rating, does it? ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/357 "2009-07-29T20:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > From Dante’s Divine Comedy > > Abandon all hope ye who enter here… Nothing is ever going to be explained to everyone’s satisfaction. We’ve been down this road before. **Seven’s** banning is a joke, this whole damn place has become a joke, and the punchline is not going to change. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/358 "2009-07-29T20:16:25Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is not a standalone message board. It is owned and operated by a newspaper chain. When I became a mod, I was asked to be very careful about copyright issues, and err on the side of caution. As far as I know (not being a lawyer myself), the copyright status of private letters and emails is still questionable, and the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696968&postcount=3) do say not to post copyrighted material, and I have tried to be consistent about telling people not to post any private correspondence without the author’s permission. 1. [Again, per John Corrado, Mod](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=512750&postcount=5), he disagreed 100% with you. This is the only time I’m aware of that the issue was ever addressed. > [@](#): > > Legally, IIRC, once a letter is received it becomes the property of the recipient, thus allowing people to sell or re-distribute it at will. While the writing inside is still the intellectual property of the writer, the actual letter itself is the property of the recipient. > > By that same standard, I would believe it to be perfectly legal to re-distribute a received e-mail. The ethical and moral issue is entirely different; while I don’t particularly _understand_ TVeb’s reasons, I think it is completely her choice as to whether she should post the information contained." In addition, Cecil in one of his first few books said that while you couldn’t publish someone’s letters for profit, the letters were yours to do with as you wanted. (Cite when I get back home and can check the actual paperbacks) And finally, one sentence is certaintly fair-use. So 3 strikes, you’re wrong. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/359 "2009-07-29T20:16:45Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > \ > > Still, I have been enforcing it the whole time I’ve been a mod and nobody has ever argued with me about it before. Perhaps because disclosing the contents of correspondence that people consider private is considered a serious breach of etiquette, no matter what your feeling on legality or ethics are. > > \ Do you always get permission from the original sender before you forward an e-mail? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/360 "2009-07-29T20:21:40Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. > > You sending an abusive PM to a mod or admin might be construed as breaking the prime rule (“don’t be a jerk”), but I don’t know. I’ve gotten some pretty nasty PMs and have never taken action on one. > > If you received a PM you considered abusive from a mod, I would recommend forwarding it to an admin. If you got one from an admin, I’d suggest forwarding it to **Ed Zotti**. I have no idea what to do if you get one from Ed ;). > > The problem, of course, is the definition of “abusive.” I’d say the more pressing concern is that it seems any other mods would have to essentially go by one word against another. If a mod sends me an abusive pm, the only evidence I have to present in an email to another mod is my word that it occurred. It’s our reputation against the mod’s. And i’d have to think that a complaint of that kind would be treated quite differently depending on who the complainer is, and who the mod complained to is. Too, what concerns me would be relative modly authority. If Tuba, or Ed, have the “final say” about moderating actions, as you say that leaves them pretty much able to get off scott-free if they did decide to pm something unpleasant. Beyond that, if there is any action of that sort, by not allowing it to be addressed on the boards it means that a record can’t be brought up. If a poster (or mod) is banned after a or many nasty messages (assuming some rule is brought up to address them), then to the regular board members it will appear unexplained and sudden, and you’ll get another outcry. Plus there can be no non-mod record, but that’s an old complaint of mine that i’ll leave for the sake of not being a broken record. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610.md?page=19)